Episode 373 || Literary Therapy, vol. 16
This week on From the Front Porch, it’s time for another episode of Literary Therapy! Every few weeks, Annie listens to your literary hangups and bookish conundrums, and much like fictional Frasier Crane in the 90s, she tackles your issues on air. If you have your own reading riddle you’d like her to solve in a future issue, leave a voicemail at the From the Front Porch website.
To purchase the books mentioned in this episode, visit our new website:
Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Li
These Silent Woods by Kimi Cunningham Grant
Finlay Donovan by Elle Cosimano
The Appeal by Janice Hallett
The Unsinkable Greta James by Jennifer E. Smith
Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus
The Love of my Life by Rosie Walsh
The Maid by Nita Prose
The Ballerinas by Rachel Kapelke-Dale
Kings of B’More by R. Eric Thomas
When You Get the Chance by Emma Lord
Vacationland by Meg Mitchell Moore
One Italian Summer by Rebecca Serle
We Are Not Like Them by Christine Pride & Jo Piazza
The View Was Exhausting by Mikaella Clements & Onjulia Datta
Breathless by Amy McCulloch
Notes on an Execution by Danya Kukafka
Defending Jacob by William Landay (not available through us, check your local library)
Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir
The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber (not available through us, check your local library)
Finding Freedom by Erin French
Delancey by Molly Wizenberg
Radical Candor by Kim Scott
From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in South Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website, www.bookshelfthomasville.com.
A full transcript of today’s episode can be found below.
Special thanks to Dylan and his team at Studio D Podcast Production for sound and editing and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.
This week Annie is reading Mika in Real Life by Emiko Jean.
If you liked what you heard in today’s episode, tell us by leaving a review on iTunes. Or, if you’re so inclined, support us on Patreon, where you can hear our staff’s weekly New Release Tuesday conversations, read full book reviews in our monthly Shelf Life newsletter and follow along as Hunter and I conquer a classic. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch.
We’re so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.
Our Executive Producers are... Donna Hetchler, Angie Erickson, Cammy Tidwell, Chantalle C, Nicole Marsee, Wendi Jenkins, Laurie johnson and Kate Johnston Tucker.
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Transcript:
Annie Jones [00:00:01] Welcome to From the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business and life in the South.
[00:00:24] I don't know anything other than that it's only when something's damaged beyond repair that we realize how beautiful it was. Rosie Walsh. The love of my life.
[00:00:36] I'm Annie Jones, owner of the bookshelf, an independent bookstore in beautiful downtown Thomasville, Georgia. And this week, it's time for another episode of literary therapy. It is already sweltering here in South Georgia. And as a bookish woman who was once a bookish kid, that means I'm already thinking about summer reading. Nothing to me will ever match the excitement I felt as a child, than earning a star sticker to go on my book at penn, then driving with my parents over to Pizza Hut and securing a personal penn pizza. Reading for its own pleasure, delightful. Reading for a reward, pure magic. So this bit of nostalgia is what has inspired us to partner with one of our local pizza joints, Polly's Pizza, for our Summer by the Slice Program. This is for our local kids, pre-K through eighth grade. So if you're in or around Thomasville, I hope you will come by the shop and have your kids pick up your Summer by the Slice bookmark. Each time they finish a book, they come to the bookshelf, will stamp their bookmark. And then when they finish three books, they take the bookmark over to Polly's for a free slice of pizza. It is like Book It, but local.
[00:01:44] I'm so excited about this. I can hardly stand it. My staff already asked if adults could participate. This is really for your children. We want children to feel the same metaphorical high that we all received when we finished a book and got to eat pizza. And so Summer by the Slice was born. I hope you'll bring your kids by and let them pick up a bookmark and read this summer and allow their reading to be rewarded with pizza from a local pizza place. So summer by the Slice. Come pick up your kid's bookmark at the bookshelf and have them participate. We would love for them to join us. Now, back to the task at hand. Every few weeks I dive into the metaphorical mailbag and peruse your literary hang ups and bookish conundrums like a literary Frasier Crane tackling your issues on air. If you have your own literary riddle you'd like me to solve in a future episode, I would love, love, love, for you to leave me a voicemail. Just go to the from the front porch website. That's fromthefrontporchpodcast.com/contact and you scroll to the middle of the page and you'll see an orange button that says 'Leave a Voicemail. You don't need to have a microphone. You don't really even need headphones. Just tap that and leave me a voicemail. You can do it on your phone. It's super easy and I would really love to hear from you. Let's dive in to our first dilemma.
Emily [00:02:59] Hi Annie, my name's Emily. My problem right now is that I have Audible, I have Libby, I have Libro Fm. And then also sometimes I have just like a regular book that I bought or checked out from the library, and I just end up scrolling until, like, I can't figure out what I want to listen to or I used up all the time that I had to even start listening to a book. It's like the same thing that happens with like just scrolling through Netflix trying to figure out what I want. And I'm just wondering, should I just talk to the ground and start again or is there a way to help me? Sometimes I will hear about a book from you or from Jamie on the Popcast, and then I'll just buy it and listen to it. And it's great and I love it. But then I have all these other ones that I already have that I am just like, I don't know. So, anyway, I don't know what to do. If you could help me figure something out, that would be awesome. Thank you so much. I just love your show and I love getting to see you on Instagram.
Annie Jones [00:04:16] Emily is all of us. Emily, I want you to listen, obviously, to your own advice that I'm going to be giving you next. But the next listener, Stephanie, has a similar kind of conundrum. And, look, I think this is all of us. We have too many choices. It's too many options. It's one of the reasons I'm so glad I'm married because we have too much at our fingertips. Too much on Netflix. Too much on Hulu. Too many streaming services. Too many books, even, which I know is sacrilege for me to say. But believe me, I see how many new releases come out every week and it's a lot of books. And so, you're not alone. This is an actual problem. We have an abundance of riches, which is really wonderful, but actually can make our lives harder. And so I'm here to tell you, you're not alone. The problem you're experiencing is real. But I do have some suggestions. The first -- and this is a suggestion I'm going to give Stephanie the next listener as well. But I want you to start a list so you don't need to download every audiobook, every time you hear it mentioned on From the Front Porch or the Popcast or Modern Mrs. Darcy or what should I read next? Wherever you're getting your book recommendations. This is what a list is for. We love a list. More than a regular list, we love a checklist.
[00:05:34] So open up your Notes app, start you a checklist, and then you can have the wonderful feeling of checking off every time you either read a book or you download a book, you check it out from the library, whatever. But I think you need a list because I think what's happening is you're downloading these books or you're getting them from the library or you're buying them from your local bookstore. And then when it's time to sit down and read, you're like, I don't know. I don't know where to begin. Because the good news for you is they're all good books, right? They've come from good recommended sources. They've come to you from people you trust. And so the issue isn't, oh, which one of these books am I going to read because one of them might suck? It's which one of these books am I going to read? They're all so good. I don't know where to begin. And so you have a good problem, but it's still a problem. And so I think a list would really help you. And I don't know if you're a mood reader or not. So if you're a mood reader, that kind of sort of helps. It depends what kind of mood reader you are. If you're grouchy and you only want to read like depressing books, then your problem is solved. If you're in the mood for something you can pick up and put down, well, that's essays. So I think if you're a mood reader, it does help this dilemma a little bit. But I think you need to start with a list. And then pick one.
[00:06:56] That's it. That's the good advice. Pick one. Pick one and don't look back. Choose a book and treat that book like your spouse. You've picked it. You've got to stick with it until you finish it. That's my advice. You have to just pick one. This is how I feel about Netflix shows or streaming shows. Jordan and I are a lot like you where we're sitting and we spend 30 minutes picking a thing and then we realize, oh, no, now it's too late to start a thing. Guess we're going to watch another episode of Law & Order SVU. And that's not what I want for you, Emily. That's not what I want. I want you to just pick one. Pick one, and let the consequences be what they are. Maybe you hate the book. Maybe it's not the thing you were looking for, but you've started it. And that is half the battle. So you start a list and then I want you to pick a book. And then it sounds like you do listen to a lot of audiobooks. I do have one more kind of tip for you, which is pair your books with a specific task. So for example, maybe while you're doing laundry, that's when you listen to a fiction book. And it's always fiction. And you know, no matter what, you have a fiction book going every time you're doing laundry. Or maybe it's every time you get in the car, you're going to listen to the new Shauna Niequist book. And that's what you're going to do every time you're in the car. You're not going to listen to it any other time, just when you're in the car.
[00:08:23] So assign your books to a task or to a space. Fiction with laundry. Self-help with car. Nonfiction with a long walk. Like, pair your reading to a task or to a place. And I think that will help diversify your reading a little bit. I think that will help you read more than one book at once, if you're so inclined. Like, if you want to really dip your toe into multiple genres at once, well, great. Listen to fiction while you're at your house. Listen to nonfiction when you're out and about in the world. Or vice versa, whatever it is. I just think that might help you finish things and it might help take some pressure off of the picking because you know, okay, I'm going to listen to fiction while I'm doing this laundry, but then if I'm bored or if I don't really love it as much as I thought I would, I'm going to listen to nonfiction while I'm on my walk or what have you. So start a list. Pick a book. Just pick one. And I know that's easier said than done. But what if I told you you will have a chance to read all the books you want? So then you can just pick one. No rhyme or reason to it. Just pick one. Literally, put them on a hat for all I care and draw one out. But just pick a book and then assign a book to a particular place or to a particular task. And I think that'll help with your audiobooks in particular. Emily, I feel for you. I think your problem is every woman/ man/person's problem. It's all of our problems because we just have so many options. And I think that's why ultimately you just have to pick. And is that too tough love? I record these in a vacuum. You're not here, emily. I can't look into your eyes and show how much empathy I have for you. So I hope this didn't come across as too much tough love. But pick a book. You won't regret it. You won't regret just picking a book.
Stephanie [00:10:16] Hi, Annie. This is Stephanie from Richmond, Virginia. I'm a long time listener of the podcast and appreciate your insights into our reading dilemmas. I am typically a mood reader, but recently my reading life has been determined by what becomes available from the library. I can't seem to not pick up a book I put on hold when it becomes available, then end up with a huge stack and feel instantly overwhelmed. I also tend to have a variety of books ready to read from thrillers and mystery, literary fiction and everything in between. I want to read them all but end up with decision fatigue and have no clue where to start. Thank you.
Annie Jones [00:10:50] Stephanie you and Emily have the same problem. Now, you're a mood reader. So that is something I know about you that I don't know about Emily. But, Stephanie, you're one of our patreon supporters. It sounds like you do a lot of library books. You do a lot of library holds. We talked about this a little bit on Patreon a couple of months ago. I think this is going to come across as harsher than I intend. Stop doing that. stop requesting books for your library. And other librarians and library people are listening to me being like, what? That is horrible advice. Hear me out for a second because I love the local library, but I acknowledge I don't utilize my local library as much anymore because of my role as a bookstore owner. The bookstore is my library. But what I mean is hold off for a second on putting any more books on hold. And I realize that you listen to From the Front Porch. Maybe you listen to other bookish podcasts, you follow people on bookstore gram, but I think we get a little trigger happy, right? Almost like adding things to your shopping cart. I do this all the time with Libro Fm because I have a lot of credits with them and I have a lot of ALCs, Advanced Listening Copies. And I add stuff to the cart and the next thing you know, I've got 12 audiobooks. I'm not going to listen all 12 of those audiobooks, and I just have this abundance. And that's what Emily has, right, this abundance of books.
[00:12:17] So I'm suggesting you eliminate the abundance and maybe stop requesting or holding books at your local library, and instead, because you are a mood reader, allowing the mood and the serendipity of the moment to lead the way. What would happen if you went into your local library and you picked a book because it was already available? It's not something you had to, like, request a copy of. It's not something you heard about on a podcast. Maybe you heard about it weeks ago because like Emily, I think you should have a list. I think you should have a Notes app list on your phone. If Notes app isn't your thing, maybe a paper list, but I think we all have our phones attached to us. I think having a list on your phone where you have the action of, okay, I listened to Annie talk about this on From the Front Porch and so I have a from the front porch note in my Notes app. I'm not going to go to the library right now and check out those books. I'm just going to add them to this list. And then next time I'm in the library or next time I'm scrolling through the library's website on my phone or on my computer, I'll go to my list and I'll see which one of these am I in the mood for today? And I'll see if it's available. Or I'm going to wander the shelves. Don't you miss wandering? Maybe it's just me. I love a good wander in a bookstore or in a library. And so if you've got your list, that kind of fills the need of adding something to your shopping cart or adding something to your holds list. You've put it on your own list. That's not going anywhere, staying with you.
[00:13:58] But now the library is not going to call you with 20 books on hold and you don't know what to do. You don't know what to read next. I just think we're causing ourselves a problem. I just think we're giving ourselves decision fatigue by having so many options. So, like Emily, I think you should start a list and you can do some of the things I suggested to Emily. But I think Emily is more of an audio book listener, first of all. And then second of all, it sounds like she's less of a mood reader. So I'm not sure all of the advice I gave Emily would apply to you. But I think a list would really help you. And I really do think if you put a pause button. Not forever, just for now, Oh, and look, here we are at the start of a new season. Maybe for the summer, no more library holds. And, instead, you try this new system of adding it to a list. And then next time you need a book to read, going to the library or going to the library's website and seeing what's available off of your list. Again, there may be avid library users who are listening to this going, Annie, that's not how it works. My library expects me, it needs me to to tell them what books I want so it will request them. Like, I do know. I do know how libraries work. And so I do know that libraries, like bookstores, rely on customers and on readers to kind of tell them what they need to order. But I'd venture to say there are other readers doing that. And so free yourself up to not have to put so many books on hold, like give yourself a breather, give yourself the summer to not do that and see how you feel. I think it could help. I don't know.
[00:15:39] A lot of people on Patreon had other tips and tricks, which I thought were really helpful. But I still think maybe giving yourself a minute to play some catch up and to not feel frenzied at how many books are on your list. I'm just wondering if you took the summer to put a pause button on the library holds, to start this new list system, I think it could really help you. Actually, I think for you reading is so ingrained in how you're feeling, what you read last that I think having this list and then allowing yourself to enjoy a trip to the library or a trip to the bookstore or a trip to the website. Like, having it be a treat instead of, oh, great, what do I have on hold here? Like, what am I going to do about this list of 20 books? I think, what if we tried this for the summer and see how it works for you? That's my advice, Stephanie. I hope it's helpful. Again, I hope I'm not coming across this tough love here because I do think the issues that Emily and Stephanie are facing are the issues of us all. I feel like this every time I sit down with my remote control to watch TV, it's too many options. So let's eliminate some of the options. Let's just get rid of some of the options.
Erin [00:16:55] Hi, Annie. Longtime listener, first time caller. My name is Erin and I am from Kansas City, Missouri. I don't know if it's just the pandemic or the fact that I had a baby about seven months ago, but my focus is not so great. However, reading makes me feel like myself, and so it's a priority to me. In this season, I've realized that plot-driven books with characters I can invest in are just what I need. So my question is how do I consistently pick plot-driven books without just avoiding the literary fiction section? Many people suggest thrillers, but I read before bed, so that's a no go for me. Can you help me out? Thanks.
Annie Jones [00:17:30] Erin, you also are not alone. I think over the past two plus years, we all have lost our focus a bit. So you're not alone. I loved the quote. I even wrote it down because I was like, well, that's lovely and exactly how I feel, too. Reading makes me feel like myself. That's what you said. And I completely agree. Reading makes me feel like myself. So let's find you some good books. It sounds like, by your own admission, you love plot-driven books, but no thrillers. And I think when we think of plot-driven books, to me, plot-driven books are frequently the most compulsively readable. They're the page turners, right? They're the ones that keep you reading. Olivia and I talk about this a lot. I do think thrillers are the first books that come to mind when we think of page turners. However, I do think there are some books that are suspenseful but not scary that could provide this same adrenaline rush of turning the page almost like an action movie instead of scary movie. So I do have a couple of like action centered books for you that are more plot-driven, but they're not scary thrillers that are going to keep you up at night.
[00:18:46] And then I also want to encourage you something Olivia and I both notice. Certainly I noticed now and I did not notice before. I think you need to start looking for short chapters, because I think those lend themselves to like moving yourself forward, creating a propulsion to keep going, giving you a natural reading rhythm. Whereas, I think books with longer chapters, first of all, tend to be character-driven and, second of all, can occasionally bog you down. And when you have a lack of focus, when you have a brand new, sweet, precious baby, I think what you need are short chapters and books that are going to keep you moving. So I did have a little list, and I don't always do this because I don't just want to leave you a list and then not a way to solve your problem. But I think I've given you some tricks to help you solve the problem, which is there are action books that are not thrillers, that are not scary and then look for short chapters. So those are like my long term helps for you as you look for what to read next. In the interim, I've got a list. So here we go. Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Li This is a great action suspense book. Not scary at all. You could absolutely read this at night. Short chapters, alternating characters. plot-driven. Very, very, plot-driven. These Silent Words by Kimmy Cunningham Grant. This sounds scary. It is not scary. I did not think this was scary. In fact, because you and I are different people, Erin. I wanted this to be scarier, but it is just a really good, fast paced page turner of a book.
[00:20:17] And I belong to a book club with a lot of moms, like a lot of women with kids, and everybody -- I'm trying to think. I think everybody finish this book, maybe with the exception of one book club member. And that's generally a pretty good sign that it was something that held everybody's attention. You've heard me recommend many times, probably Finlay Donovan by Elle Cosimano, but I stand by that recommendation. First of all, perhaps you yourself will see some of yourself in Finley Donovan. She's a mom. She is a mom struggling to find a new rhythm in her life. She strikes me as somebody who doesn't have a lot of focus either. Again, this has suspenseful moments. Finley Donovan is literally an accidental hit woman, but not scary. This is not a book that's going to keep you up at night. The same is true of a book called The Appeal, which Olivia and I both read and loved. And I have heard nothing but raves from everybody we've recommended it to. And we have a wide range of customers across genres and interests, but this really has appealed -- pun intended -- to everybody. So The Appeal by Janice Hallett. There are two more in. The Made by Nita Prose and the Ballerinas by Rachel Kapelke-Dale. Those to me are suspenseful books, action packed books, but not scary books.
Annie Jones [00:21:40] Now, books that I also find to be propulsive, readable, but I would not call them necessarily suspenseful. But they're books that keep you moving. They're plot-driven enough where they keep you moving. The Unsinkable Gretta James, that's by Jennifer Smith. And we're going to talk about Jennifer Smith in a second, because I think there's something here that might appeal beyond thrillers. So The Unsinkable Greta James. Lessons in Chemistry. I'm mentioning this one here because, again, everyone I've recommended Lessons in chemistry, too, has loved it. And that includes people like me who love character-driven books and an includes people like Jamie B. Golden of the Popcast who loves plot-driven books. Everyone has loved this book. Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus. The Love of My Life by Rosie Walsh. I'm going to mention her here alongside author Liane Moriarty. These are authors who I think their books are very much compulsively readable, like sit down, can't put them down, but not scary. Not scary. Just domestic stories. Stories about families. Secrets that come uncovered. Like, books that I think you will really enjoy because they are plot-driven. And then Jennifer Smith, who wrote The Unsinkable Gretta James, I believe that was her first adult book. So she typically writes YA lit. And I wanted to recommend some young adult lit to you because I think when we think of plot-driven books, our minds automatically go to thrillers and suspense novels. And I think that's for a reason. Obviously, they're going to have this great plot because that's the whole point. The whole point is to have this climactic moment solve a mystery, whatever.
[00:23:18] But I think young adult lit is often very propulsive and very plot-driven because it's trying to hold the attention of a younger reader. And all of our attention spans are a little muddle. It's everyone, regardless of age. But I do think authors who are writing for young adults are writing for a brain pulled in all directions. And so I think there is some young adult lit you might really enjoy. And we do not turn our noses up here at young adult lit, but there is no room for shame in our reading lives. And so I want to recommend a couple. Jennifer Smith is a great YA author, but I wanted to mention a couple that I thought would be fun for you. Kings of Be More. This is by R. Eric Thomas. It's new this month. I loved it. It's very much inspired by Ferris Bueller's Day Off. So that makes it, in my mind, a very fun summer book. And then When You Get the Chance by Emily Ward, which pays homage to Mamma Mia, and to theater, and to Broadway, and to New York. Very fun. I want you to maybe try some young adult lit in this life stage because I think it might be just what you need. So those are some recommendations in the short term. In the long term, look for short chapters. Look for books that are action packed but not necessarily scary thrillers. Let these books kind of be the guide and set the tone and then see how your reading tastes kind of evolves from there.
Jordan [00:24:40] Hi, Annie. This is Jordan from Michigan. I've learned a lot about myself and my reading preferences the past couple of years, and I'm hoping you can recommend a couple books based on what I've learned. The main thing I know about my reading life is that I do not care about character development. I know character development is your jam, and of course I root for certain characters in books, but I am much more plot-driven. I know it's a crime to say, but I hated Pride and Prejudice. I couldn't keep the character straight, and I just didn't care about them. And I'm an Enneagram one, so I made myself finish the whole book anyway. And maybe I wasn't in the right headspace at the time. But even The Vanishing Half by Brit Benette, it was hard for me to get through. So what I have noticed that I'm drawn to are books that either switch between narrators or time periods. I loved, I loved, loved, The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue. I also loved Ghosted by Rosie Walsh. And I also just finished Maybe In Another Life by Taylor Jenkins Reid. All of them had so many plot twists, and the stories were told from different perspectives throughout the book. With that, do you have any other recommendations that you think could hold my attention? Thank you so much.
Annie Jones [00:25:49] Jordan, I put your question by Aaron's because I think you two are very similar, right? Very into plot-driven rather than character-driven. This doesn't hurt my feelings. I am a character-driven reader, but I really do think the last two years have done a number on our brains. And so no judgment here. You can be character-driven. You can like character-driven fiction. You can like plot-driven fiction. Whatever works for you. I think what's important, Jordan, is that you have found what works for you. And I love how you very clearly were like, look, I don't like this. I don't like literary fiction. I'm struggling with where to find the books that I like. I would encourage you to listen to the advice I gave Erin. Short chapters. Look for suspense books. They don't necessarily have to be thrillers. And the other thing you mentioned that you really liked is alternating narrators. So I have a few recommendations. And then you mentioned Taylor Jenkins Reid, and I just wanted to really pay attention to her backlist. So she is pretty reliable about coming out with a book, give or take about every year. And so let her be your author. Like I am jealous.
[00:26:55] And I and I love this idea that there's an author you love so much that you read everything she writes the moment she releases it. Like, how fun that maybe you treat yourself every year to a new Taylor Jenkins Reid book and it comes to you in the mail and every year it's like your treat. I just think finding an author that you know is reliable for you is so important. And it sounds like Taylor Jenkins Reid is that for you. And I have read enough of her books where I really believe, if you like one, you will like most, if not all. Like, she's very consistent. Some of her books are different from others. Like I think about Daisy Jones and the huge book that that was for her. That was certainly a bit of a departure in terms of narrative style, but her storytelling is the same. I have liked Taylor Jenkins Reid for a long time, and I think she's really consistent. And so if you like one of her books, I suspect you will like most, if not all of them. So the Taylor Jenkins Reid backlist, I think is a safe bet for you. I wanted to mention another book that I mentioned to Erin which is The Love of My Life by Rosie Walsh. Again, kind of domestic family story, but family secrets and uncovering family things, but not character-driven. This is plot-driven. Yes, you learn about the husband and wife at the heart of the book, but this book is really about uncovering the family secret and uncovering that plot. Vacationland by Meg Mitchelmore. So my mom recommended this on last week's podcast episode and she mentions the alternating narrators and how much she loved that. And so that's to kind of scratch that alternating narrator itch.
[00:28:23] One Italian Summer by Rebecca Serle. This is a book that has been loved by multiple people on our staff and multiple people of different reading tastes. I also think this would be a fun audiobook. It's narrated by Lauren Graham. Now, the next one I want to recommend to you I really think you'll like, it's called We Are Not Like Them. This is by Christine Pride and Jo Piazza. I interviewed them. Gosh, I don't remember how long ago, but they wrote this book in alternating voices. But what I find fascinating is they worked together on each of the voices. So it wasn't like one author took one narrator and the other author took the other narrator. They worked together, which the book is beautifully cohesive. I don't know how they did it. It's amazing. But the alternating narrators are so compelling. I really think you will like this book. And then a book that I just consistently keep recommending because it was such a surprise to me last summer is, The View was Exhausting by Mikaella Clements and Onjuli datta. I really liked this book and it very much screams Taylor Jenkins Reid to me. I think you've probably heard me mention about it on the podcast before, but if you have been following along with Ben Affleck and J.Lo, I think those two people are very reminiscent of all of the lead characters in this book. I just can't believe more people didn't talk about this one when it released. I'm not sure what that was about, but I think he'd really like it.
[00:29:46] So, Jordan, I gave you this list. But much like Erin, I do want to make sure you're equipped to find your own books in the future. And so I would encourage you to look for female authors with strong female protagonists. I guess the authors could be male. And that's neither here nor there. The authors could be whatever gender. But I do think strong female protagonists, short chapters, flip through the book to see if it's alternating narrators. That does not always work. But I think if it works often for you, it's worth trying a book that does that. And I think asking your local bookseller or your local librarian for domestic stories with a twist. So I would again mention the Rosie Walsh's, The Leon Moriarty's and Taylor Jenkins Reid. Like, once you find an author, if you take that author to your local library or to your local bookstore, if you take that author's name, those booksellers and those librarians will know exactly where to point you. That's the beauty of a bookstore. That's the beauty of a library. So those are my tips and recommendations for you. I think between this list that I gave you and the list that I gave, Erin, you should be in pretty good shape for the next few weeks or months. But don't ever be afraid to go into a bookstore and say, "I've read all of Taylor Jenkins Reid and I really like those books." And you, Jordan, have so beautifully encapsulated your tastes. I think it's really remarkable. You know exactly what you like. You are a booksellers dream. When a customer comes into the bookshelf and asks us for a book recommendation, the first thing we ask is, "What have you read recently that you loved? What did you not like? What did you hate?" And you have the answers to those questions. And so you're a booksellers and a librarians dream. They'll be able to point you in the right direction.
Jocelyn [00:31:28] Hi, Annie, my name is Jocelyn and I'm calling from Atlanta, Georgia. My literary conundrum is actually on behalf of my husband, Alex, who isn't a big reader and historically has read a few nonfiction books a year. This year, I was delighted that he hopes to read more. And on top of that, he wants to read more fiction. My question is, do you have any advice for how a new adult fiction reader can figure out what types of books he'll enjoy? So far, he's read Blake Crouch and really liked it. He knows that he dislikes verbose or flowery writing. But our only other, not so well thought out, strategy has been to pick out books that have movie adaptations, since he loves movies. I really want to strike while the iron is hot and help him get into fiction. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Annie Jones [00:32:11] Jocelyn, what a fun project. I totally understand where you're coming from because we like to joke in our house that law school ruined Jordan's reading life, and he's quite an avid reader now. But that is because of audiobooks, and that's because of his commute that he's really been able to rediscover a love of particularly fiction. He reads nonfiction fairly regularly, but through my work at the bookshelf and through years now removed from law school, he's been able to fall back in love with fiction. So I love this project that you're embarking on with your husband. And, look, I also love that you're treating it like a project. I love a project. Jordan and I both do. And so, I have a lot of respect for you and your husband and embarking on this together. I love finding books that are going to be or have been movie or TV adaptations. So I don't think there is anything wrong with the trajectory that you're on. I actually think you're on the right track here because how fun to read the book and then watch the movie together. Like, it's a reward, right? It's going back to me talking about my love of Book It and Pizza Hut. Like, reading on its own and for its own pleasure is a beautiful thing, but it's absolutely 100 percent okay to reward yourself for reading, especially if you're a reluctant reader or a late blooming reader. And so I think finding your husband books that have been adapted into TV or film is a really good place to start.
[00:33:39] I immediately actually thought of Defending Jacob. This is the first book that I can remember Jordan reading in our marriage. This the first novel that he really loved. And partly that's because it's law adjacent and Jordan is a lawyer, but I think your husband might like it too. And there's a great TV adaptation that very few people talk about, and I don't know why. It stars Chris Evans and Michelle Dockery, it's a legitimately good TV show, but very few people talk about it. I don't know if that's because of the pandemic of it all, but anyway, I wanted to mention Defending Jacob. And then because your husband likes Blake Crouch, I wanted to mention Jeff Vandermeer. Again, there are some film adaptations here or a film adaptation. He wrote a trilogy of books, including the book Annihilation, and there's a film adaptation of Annihilation. He's from Tallahassee, which is part of the reason we love him so much. But I think he has that slight sci-fi sensibility that Blake Crouch has. And then Olivia and I both love Andy Weir. And so you might, of course, recognize Andy Weir from The Martian, which is a great book. But Hail Mary might be my favorite of his. Olivia and I both read that book last year and adored it, and it will ultimately be, I believe, a movie adaptation. I think Ryan Gosling is already attached. So those were just some off the cuff recommendations that I know Jordan has really liked, and that makes sense given what your husband is currently enjoying.
[00:34:58] The other fun thing that I would recommend is taking your husband's nonfiction interests and applying them to fiction. So I think all the time about how novels and really well-written fiction can send us on deep dives into other things, right? So, for example, the book I mentioned a few minutes ago, The Unsinkable Gretta James, is about Alaska and that might send you on a deep dive into Alaska and make you kind of look up the Wikipedia page about Alaska or might make you research Alaskan cruises. We did this all the time as kids. I say we I, I did this all the time as a kid. I would read a book about -- hmm, gosh, I'm trying to think of a good example. Okay. I would read Number the Stars and immediately become obsessed with learning about and researching and convincing my parents to take a trip to D.C. to go visit the Holocaust Museum. , I would read a book and become infatuated with a period in history. We talk about on staff, I say we because this is something the bookshelf staff I think has done a lot, but we talk about as a staff when we were kids being obsessed with the Titanic and then reading everything we could get our hands on about the Titanic. And I just think that feeling is still living inside of us. And I think there's a way to read fiction. Doesn't have to be nonfiction, read fiction and then do a deep dove or take your husband's interests. What is he interested in? And then finding him fiction about those nonfiction interests.
[00:36:35] I'm going to give an example. So Olivia just read this really great book called Breathless by Amy McCullouch. She may have mentioned it on the podcast, but she has recommended it to me. I'm probably going to read it because she's a really amazing bookseller. And so I'm very tempted to pick it up. But it is about a young woman who's a journalist and she, like, works for a rock climbing magazine or mountain climbing magazine. But she notoriously has never been able to summit a mountain or what have you. And she winds up going on this mountaineering trip to interview this great mountain climber. But what I thought was fascinating, the book sounds really good. There's suspense. It's a thriller. But Olivia couldn't stop talking about how it made Olivia become obsessed with, at least temporarily, mountain climbing. And it made Olivia go off and watch the documentary 14 Peaks. So finding out what your husband is interested in, maybe it's baseball, maybe it's mountain climbing, maybe it's comic books. And then finding a book that translates that interest into fiction. So another book that I read recently, I think about video games and for a while how Ready Player One was such a popular book. That's another book your husband might like. But there's a new book coming out called Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. It's going to be one of my favorite books of the year. It's about video games. It's about more than video games. But if your husband's a gamer, that is a great work of fiction he might really enjoy.
[00:38:00] Jordan and I have a shared interest in criminal justice reform, and so I might then recommend the novel, the new novel Notes on an Execution by Danya Kukafka, which is really a lot about the death penalty. So taking something that your husband is interested in and then finding a fiction work, I think could be a really fun aspect of this and a way to embrace his literary side while also acknowledging his other interests. I loved this, by the way. I don't know if you can tell in my voice. I found this all very exciting. It's exactly something we would do on staff, like pairing a literal nonfiction interest into a fiction book. This is just something we do all the time, so I think that that could be really helpful, Jocelyn, as you and your husband work together to continue to cultivate his love of the written word, I'm really excited for you and I hope this is helpful.
Stephanie [00:38:54] Hi, my name is Stephanie and I am a new fan to From the Front Porch Podcast. I joined to read along with the Monte Cristo book this year. I love your podcast, especially because you're a small business owner. And even though I didn't realize that you talked about that before joining your Patreon, I am also a small business owner. I make sustainable products. I do this from home and we are currently looking at opening a brick and mortar, which is a scary thing to do. But I would love to hear you talk about running a brick and mortar store and transitioning from maybe online to a brick and mortar. But also if you have any book recommendations combining both worlds when it comes to a startup business like this. Business plans and startup costs and all the great things that go into that that we are diving into. And getting a lots of feedback that I just thought I would reach out and ask you yourself because you're a book lover, a bookshop owner, a small business owner, and all the things I aspire to be.
Annie Jones [00:39:58] Stephanie, this is so kind and a different kind of literary dilemma, which I do appreciate. So, yes, I own a brick and mortar bookstore. Owning a brick and mortar is not for the faint of heart. And, in fact, I think we live in a world with a lot of really wonderful, awesome businesses that solely exist online. And I am in awe of what they do, but it is very different from a brick and mortar. And so I want to commend you and congratulate you and also send you my best wishes and also my stress gummies. Like, because it is stressful to own a brick and mortar store if there's just a lot more overhead. And, yeah, it's not for the faint of heart, but I'm excited for you. I don't know a lot about your business, obviously, but I will tell you, most people who know me know that despite my love of reading, I do not love a ton of business books. Now I read, I think like everybody did, The E-Myth Revisited. This is a book Jordan gave me the moment I mentioned that I was interested in pursuing ownership of the bookshelf rather than just managing it. So he either bought me or he had a copy from his college degree. He gave me a copy of The E-Myth Revisited. And I do think that it has a lot of principles. It's a standard business book, but I do think it has a lot of really helpful principles, especially if your business is growing and if you are moving from a creator type of role into an owner type of role. Those are very different things and I wouldn't have been able to tell you that ten or 11 years ago, but now I would. And so I do recommend that book.
[00:41:37] The other business book --- I'm using air quotes. It's more about being a good boss or being a competent boss. The other book that I have read, or at least I've read part of it, is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Now, these are nonfiction business books. That's not actually where I find the most help or inspiration when it comes to running the bookshelf. Interestingly, some of my very favorite books about entrepreneurship are actually memoirs and the books about people who have gone on to open or own their own businesses. I'm thinking about Finding Freedom by Erin French. She owns a beautiful restaurant called The Lost Kitchen in Maine. I'm thinking of Delancey by Molly Wizenberg about a pizza place out in the Pacific Northwest. And then interestingly, two books that I found really helpful about management and the management of people is a book about Nora Ephron and her films called I'll Have What She's Having. And then the book about the Office, The Oral History of the Office. Both of those -- I know that sounds so weird, but learning how those showrunners and those directors managed a room I found really, really, helpful. And the way that they utilized and paid attention to the skills of the people who worked alongside them and with them, I just found really helpful and more helpful than a traditional business book. So those are some book recommendations.
[00:43:01] The other thing I will say, my biggest piece of advice is actually to find a business coach. And no one told me this. No one told me this until 2019, after I had run the bookshelf for, oh, I don't know, six years? And I'm here to tell you that finding a business coach changed my life and changed the life of the bookshelf. So I've had two business coaches. I will name them here. You may be familiar. So Beth Silvers was my first business coach. She is one of the hosts of Pantsuit Politics. She no longer does business coaching, but she coached me for, I think, a year, nine months. It's hard to say because of the pandemic of it all. She had a background in human resources and in law, and I loved the way Beth's brain works. You can tell that by listening to their podcast, but she was extremely helpful in guiding me through and helping me navigate some serious business issues that I was having at that time. And then my current business coach or creative director is Emily Freeman. Again, you may know her from her podcast The Next Great Thing. She has been almost invaluable in helping guide my business through some transitions in the last six months. Helping me address the ways the bookshop has changed because the bookshop has changed since the pandemic. The way the bookshop has grown.
[00:44:22] You mentioned, Stephanie, that you're going from an online store to a brick and mortar. And I went from a brick and mortar to also having this pretty large online component that started off small, but because of the pandemic grew. And thanks to customers and listeners like you, it has grown and stayed grown. It grew up and stayed grown up. And so I have needed help knowing how to make sure the growth of the bookshelf is sustainable. And so as much as books are helpful, and I love a good book, it is people who have helped me make the bookshelf better. It's people and it's finding competent-wise people. I'll also throw one more thing out there, which is don't be afraid to find inspiration in the unlikeliest of places. So one of my favorite examples of this is my friendship with the Popcast, with Knox and Jamie. We are friends. Like, I've met them in real life, but even before that, their business kind of got off the ground around the same time I took over the bookshop. And so in their own weird way, their business is totally different from mine and completely 100 percent different from mine, and yet I've been paying attention. Pay attention to businesses you really respect and to business models you really respect, and then ask them questions and see what kind of wisdom they can provide.
[00:45:45] Because I have found my conversations or emails or Voxers with Knox or Jamie to be really, really, helpful even though their business again is nothing like mine., Like at it's face value, very different things. And yet they have been so helpful to me and so wise. And so when I think about who has helped shape the bookshelf, it's less the business books I've read, although the ones I mentioned I do recommend, but it's more about people who have come alongside me and essentially held my hand or like pulled me along and provided me with wisdom I desperately needed. And so surrounding yourself with people, whether that's through your local chamber of commerce or finding a business owner you really respect and asking them how they do what they do. Don't be afraid to think outside the walls and boundaries of your city. Like, the world is your oyster. The Internet exists. And so perhaps there's a business states away from yours that is inspiring to you. Reach out to them, see what kind of wisdom they can provide, ask specific questions, and see what might come up. I wish you nothing but the best. Again, none of this is for the faint of heart. But I commend you and I hope this is a little bit helpful. I wanted to end on this last question from Mary Margaret.
Mary Margaret [00:46:59] Hi, Annie. I just finished The Heart's Invisible Furies by John Boyne, and it was masterful. The problem is my name is Mary Margaret and I'm horrified. And I'm worried that anyone who ever meets me who has read The Heart's Invisible Furies is going to immediately think I'm a villain. Similarly, any time I meet someone named Kathy, I think about East of Eden, and I'm a little suspicious. So I'm just wondering if there are any names so villainous that when you meet someone by that name, you raise an eyebrow. Thanks, Annie.
Annie Jones [00:47:42] Mary Margaret. Here is the good news. I have not read The Heart's Invisible Fury, so I still like you a lot. And this question was so endearing and funny. And, look, I obviously have an answer for this. And if people have been listening to the podcast for a very long time, they know my answer to this, which is, I do not trust anyone at first named Amy. Now, in my adulthood, I am getting over this slowly but surely, because I know some really lovely people named Amy. Amy, of course, is Amy from Little Women. One of my friends, Amy, owns a store a couple of doors down from the bookshelf. I love Amy. So an Amy I know in real life, who is great has helped me get over this. One of my dear friends, Angela, loves Amy. She feels a kinship to Amy. And that made me realize, oh, my gosh, there are Amys in the world. It's like the metaphorical Amys. And so that helped me. Greta Gerwig and her 2019 adaptation of Little Women helped me better understand Amy. And so I no longer have, like, the visceral loathing that I used to have. I will never name a child Amy. I will never name a child Amy though. And so there is still a little bit of reticence around the name Amy. So that is my gut answer. I thought a little bit more because I was like, gosh, that's my very obvious answer. And I've had that answer since I was eight years old. And I think that's part of the problem. When you read a book when you're a kid, there's not a lot of nuance when you're a kid. And so one burned book is all it took for for Amy to be forever seared in my brain.
[00:49:17] But I did also think about Lydia and Kitty from Pride and Prejudice. I think there is a theme here in in personalities that I as a person struggle with. And so interestingly, I listen to a podcast a few weeks ago about -- I think there was an episode about Lydia and an episode about Kitty, and that really did help me. However, I think if somebody came up to me and introduced themselves to me as Kitty, I would have like a visceral reaction that I would quickly get over, because this is what it's all about. It's about people redeeming the name. So Kitty in Pride and Prejudice is not great. I don't love her. And even -- I like her. Okay, Kitty, in to all the boys I've loved before. Like, there's some elements of child likeness immaturity, if you will, that I struggle with in these characters. However, one of my favorite librarians of all time was a woman named Kitty, and she changed my life. And so I can't hate Kitty, you know what I'm saying? And just like I have a good friend now named Amy. I can't hate Amy. Mary Margaret, I'm here to tell you that there will be people who may read that book and they may think, wow, I'm never going to like another person named Mary Margaret ever again. And then they will meet you and they will think, just kidding. I've changed my mind. And so life is all about these stereotypes that then we break and then we realize, oh, there actually are lovely people in the world named Amy or Lydia or Kitty or Mary Margaret. And so have no fear. Your name can still be your name and you can still have a proud legacy behind your name.
[00:50:54] Those are the literary conundrums for this episode of From the Front Porch. Again, if you have a literary conundrum or issue that you would like to bring to the table, I would love to help you with it. You can just go to fromthefrontporchpodcast.com/contact and leave me a voicemail and be featured potentially on an upcoming episode of From the Front Porch. This week, I'm reading Mika in Real Life by Emiko Jean.
[00:51:24] From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow the bookshelves daily happenings on Instagram @Bookshelftville. And all the books from today's episode can be purchased online through our store website, bookshelfthomasville.com. A full transcript of today's episode can be found at Fromthefrontporchpodcast.com.
[00:51:45] Special thanks to Studio D Podcast Production for production of From the Front Porch and for our theme music which sets the perfect, warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations. Our executive producers of today's episode are Donna Hechler. Angie Ericson. Kimmy Tidwell. Shantelle Carls.
Executive Producers (Read their own names) [00:52:01] Nichole Marcy. Wendy Jenkins. Laurie Johnson. Kate Johnston tucker.
Annie Jones [00:52:07] Thank you all for your support of From the Front Porch. If you'd like to support From the Front Porch, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your input helps us make the show even better and reach new listeners. All you have to do is open up the podcast app on your phone, look for from the front porch, scroll down until you see 'Write me a Review' and tell us what you think.
[00:52:25] Or, if you're so inclined, you can support us over on Patreon, where we have three levels of support. Front Porch Friends, Book Club Companions and Bookshelf Benefactors. Each level has an amazing number of benefits like bonus content, access to live events, discounts and giveaways. Just go to Patreon.com/fromthefrontporch. We're so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.