Episode 391 || All About Audiobooks

From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in South Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website, www.bookshelfthomasville.com.

A full transcript of today’s episode can be found below.

Special thanks to Dylan and his team at Studio D Podcast Production for sound and editing and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.

This week Annie is reading The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie. Jordan is reading Everything Sad is Untrue by Daniel Nayeri and The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

If you liked what you heard in today’s episode, tell us by leaving a review on iTunes. Or, if you’re so inclined, support us on Patreon, where you can hear our staff’s weekly New Release Tuesday conversations, read full book reviews in our monthly Shelf Life newsletter and follow along as Hunter and I conquer a classic. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch.

We’re so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.

Our Executive Producers are... Donna Hetchler, Angie Erickson, Cammy Tidwell, Chantalle C, Nicole Marsee, Wendi Jenkins, Laurie Johnson, and Kate Johnston Tucker.

Libro.FM:

Libro.fm lets you purchase audiobooks directly from your favorite local bookstore (like The Bookshelf). You can pick from more than 215,000 audiobooks, and you'll get the same audiobooks at the same price as the largest audiobook company out there (you know the name). But you’ll be part of a different story -- one that supports community. All you need is a smart phone and the free Libro.fm app. You can shop The Bookshelf’s Libro.fm playlist here.

Transcript:

Annie Jones [00:00:01] Welcome to From the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business and life in the South.

[00:00:24] "I've never listened to an audio book before, and I have to say it's a totally different experience. When you read a book, the story definitely takes place in your head. When you listen, it seems to happen in a little cloud all around it, like a fuzzy knit cap pulled down over your eyes." Robin Sloan, Mr. Penumbra's, 24-Hour Bookstore.

[00:00:47] I'm Annie Jones, owner of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in beautiful downtown Thomasville, Georgia. And this week, we're talking about audiobooks. Before we get started, did you know Audible is a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon? I'm not sure I would have been fully aware of that fact were it not for my work in the bookselling world. Which is why, as both a consumer of audiobooks and as a bookstore owner, I am super grateful for Libro.fm And the ways they partner with independent bookstores. If you're not familiar, Libro.fm Makes it possible for you to buy audiobooks through your local bookstore. You can head to Libro.fm, choose the bookstore you'd like to support, and that store will get a portion of every purchase you make. You can support The Bookshelf by going to Librofm/Bookshelfthomasville. You can buy audiobooks a la carte, or you can have a monthly membership just like other digital audiobook platforms. Jordan and I both have Libro.fm Memberships.

[00:01:41] Obviously, you can listen to audiobooks in whatever ways are most convenient for you. Many of my friends usually Libro.fm, as well as Libby, a platform for libraries. But The Bookshelf has partnered with Libra FM since its inception, and it's a joy to have a platform to recommend to audiobook listeners who want to support indie bookstores like ours. Just go to Libro.fm/bookshelfthomasville, to find out more. I could think of no better person to chat about audiobooks with than my husband, Jordan. Jordan is an attorney for the Florida House of Representatives, and he's an avid audiobook reader. He comes on the podcast annually to chat about March Madness, but I thought it would be fun to break tradition just a bit to share audiobooks we've both been listening to and enjoying over the last few months. Hi, Jordan.

Jordan [00:02:24] Hi. How's it going?

Annie Jones [00:02:26] Welcome to the podcast.

Jordan [00:02:27] It's great to break tradition.

Annie Jones [00:02:29] It feels a little weird. Normally, we're doing this during basketball season and this is not basketball season at all.

Jordan [00:02:35] It's definitely not.

Annie Jones [00:02:36] So welcome to From the Front Porch. Welcome back. We are talking about audiobooks and I know that you are an audiobook listener; and, in fact, were an audiobook listener when I was not. And I would like to publicly say, I am pretty sure if you dig deep into the trenches of the From the Front Porch back catalog, there may be an episode or two where I stick my nose up or pooh pooh audiobooks. And I would just like to say, it's okay to change your mind. I hope I never disparage them because I hope I've always thought they were good for other readers, even if they weren't good for me. But during the pandemic, I feel like I had a complete turnaround, and audiobooks became a pretty big part of my reading life. Perhaps not as big as they loom for you. But this is just a reminder that we support the act of changing your mind when provided with new and better information.

Jordan [00:03:31] Yes, absolutely.

Annie Jones [00:03:32] Anyway, you were probably an early adopter of audiobooks. Talk to me about your history of audiobooks, why you like an audiobook. I think, in fact-- correct me if I'm wrong. Do you prefer audiobooks to printed books?

Jordan [00:03:47] Yes. Well, I think, first of all, I would say you are not the first person to judge me for audiobooks, and I never felt seriously judged by you.

Annie Jones [00:03:56] I was going to say I hope I didn't judge you.

Jordan [00:03:58] But other people do and have. I remember about 10 years ago, I told a group of guys that I was with, we were in like a reading club or something. And I told them--

Annie Jones [00:04:10] A book club, you're saying?

Jordan [00:04:11] No, it was like it was like a Bible study. That's what it was. And I had said something about how I had done some of my reading in the car via audiobooks. And one of the guys was, like, "Oh, yeah, you're not really eating. You're just kind of snacking." And at the time, I kind of thought, well, yeah, I guess he's right. I mean, it doesn't take the same effort for me to listen to an audiobook. But the more that I thought about it and the more that I got into audiobooks, the more I realized that I am an auditory learner. And I think we're wired differently. And I retain a tremendous amount when I do audiobooks and I'm not snacking, I actually remember things. So I think everybody's different.

Annie Jones [00:04:59] You had [Inaudible] before we started recording. You were on your way home today and you were talking a little bit about kind of this hypothesis you have about two types of readers, or maybe it's two types of learners. The person who has to reread in order to understand or the person who has to rewind in order to understand. And I am a visual learner and so audiobooks are good for me. And we'll talk about the ways in which I use audiobooks and the ways in which I incorporate them into my life. But I am someone who will occasionally catch myself thinking, oh, no, I don't know what that person just said, I need to rewind. Or things to context clues, I can figure it out. If I need to read something carefully, I need to read the printed version because the audio version does not necessarily nestle as deeply into my brain as the printed format does, but you are different.

Jordan [00:06:02] Right. Yeah, I think I'm different. I think the way that I first came to audio books was-- I remember even as a teenager listening to things on CD and they resonated with me. And I remember in law school we had to read a book and I went up to my professor and I said, "Can I listen to this on CD?" And he said, "Oh, yeah, that's fine." And I also started to realize friends of mine would give me recommendations and say, "Ooh, Jordan, you would really love The Brothers Karamazov, or you would really love Lord of the Rings." And I was embarrassed because I would think, okay, this guy knows me. I'm going to try to read it. And I would get through about 10 pages and I would put it down. I couldn't get through it. And I'm a law student. I mean, I can read. I'm not illiterate. I can read. I've read very difficult stuff before. We were in Great Books together, all of that was--

Annie Jones [00:06:55] But that's what I was going to kind of asks you, because you and I met-- many podcast listeners know now that we met in the Great Books program at our college. And I never really thought about this, but was Great Books hard for you? I do not recall you listening to audiobooks of the great book while we were together. Or is this something that really became vital for you in a post law school landscape?

Jordan [00:07:19] Yeah, a little bit of both. So with Great Books, it was assigned and so I would make myself do it.

Annie Jones [00:07:24] And time plays a component in all this.

Jordan [00:07:27] And time plays a component. I think what happened is post law school, part of it was, I was tired of reading, but I think a bigger part was now that I had free time again-- for the first time after law school, I felt like I had had free time. It had been 20 years I felt like that I had my nights and weekends back. And I wanted to want to read. Like, I wanted to read this book or that book. But when it came time to have leisure time, that was not my go to. I actually had to be in the mood to read. And then oftentimes I'd start to read and think, I don't want to do this right now. I'd rather do something more active. And so I remember getting through just a dozen pages of The Brothers Karamazov and thinking, well, I don't want to do it anymore. When I discovered audio books, it was easy. I started tearing through what I call tombes, you know, like Conquer Classic, right? Lord of the Rings. I got through all of those and loved it. It was enjoyable. It was fun. I couldn't read more than 10 pages. It's not that I couldn't, I did it.

Annie Jones [00:08:33] Right. You didn't. And there is something to that phrase couldn't. It's not necessarily that you were incapable of it or just didn't have the skill for it, but it is that maybe your time was limited. Or this way, you have a commute-- that's one thing that is kind of different about our reading lives. And part of the reason audiobooks have never necessarily been a huge part of my reading life, especially in a Bookshelf world, is because we live 5 minutes from the Bookshelf. And so I have no commute to listen to books. We'll talk about when I listen to my audiobooks. But you have a 45 minute commute at minimum. And so that's 45 minutes where why not listen to an audiobook? It probably feels very-- I know how your brain and my brain works. I think it probably feels very efficient to you.

Jordan [00:09:20] It feels efficient. It also feels therapeutic. Like with Lord of the Rings, for instance, I love that content. I love that substance. I would have loved it as a high schooler, but when I tried to read it, I couldn't make progress with it. I don't read as well as you do. I've seen the way that you read a book, you're able to turn the page consistently and efficiently. And you absorb it and you know what you're reading. For me, it takes a long time. I mean, you've seen me try to read books. And I still do read, I think it's important for everybody to do a little bit of both at least. But when I sit down to read, it takes me longer. It's more of a slog. Audiobooks doesn't take any effort for me.

Annie Jones [00:10:01] You like it.

Jordan [00:10:01] I love it. And I absorb it. And I can tell you everything about it after I do it.

Annie Jones [00:10:06] So the reason I wanted to talk about this now on the podcast, I think if I'm not mistaken, I feel like you and I actually did do a podcast episode about audiobooks. It was a while ago. I should look up the episode. We'll try to put a link to it in the show notes. So we've done this before, but we hadn't done it recently. And last week I recorded an episode of Literary Therapy, and one of the voicemails I got was a voicemail from a listener named Andrea. And I may feature Andrea's full question on a future episode. I'm not sure, but her question was essentially about audiobooks. She and her husband are about to have their first child, and she thought audiobooks would be a good thing that they could potentially listen to together all day while they spend probably many sleepless nights with their new baby. So she kind of put forth this idea of, hey, when do you listen to audiobooks? What audiobooks do you recommend? And so we're going to get into specific recommendations that you and I both have because we read pretty differently. But I wanted to ask maybe some specific. So I wanted to ask, first of all, when you look for an audiobook, you've already mentioned some big books that you've accomplished through audiobook format. I have an hour limit that I look at when I'm looking to download an audiobook. I'm curious if you do, meaning do you look at an audiobook and think, oh, that's too short, I want a tome. Or do you think, oh, that's too long? Like, what is your perfect audiobook length?

Jordan [00:11:23] I don't think in those terms at all. I actually go on Libro.fm-- and it's very user friendly-- and I go on Libro.fm and I have about 30 books in my wishlist right now. And so any time someone recommends a book, I go on there and I put it in my wish list no matter if I have credits at the time or not. Once I finish one, I think, what am I in the mood for? What's the last thing I read? And it's a diverse group of books. There's history, there's fiction, there's old, new, sometimes you'll recommend one and I'll think, I want that one. And I've done ones that are 40 hours because they're multi-volume. And I've done some that are so abridged that I almost feel like I'm wasting a credit. Like, under 5 hours. So it is just what I want to read at the moment. And when I get a good one, oh, it's so good.

Annie Jones [00:12:19] So that's how I treat my physical book.

Jordan [00:12:22] Right.

Annie Jones [00:12:23] When I am scrolling Libro.fm, I've never utilized the wish list. So now I'm kind of like maybe I need to do that. But part of it is that I can "expense" my audiobooks to the Bookshelf.

Jordan [00:12:36] Flex.

Annie Jones [00:12:38] But I think I might start utilizing a wish list. But I will always look and if a book is longer than 10 hours, I just don't know that I-- I don't have a commute that you have. And so I'm thinking I listen to audiobooks when I'm cleaning our house, when I'm going on walks, or when you and I road trip. And that's about it. And occasionally if I've got to go to Target in Tallahassee, then I look and see if I have an audiobook. But I also listen to podcasts, and so my audiobook listening time is kind of limited or at least more limited than yours. And so I don't really want a book-- like I know other podcast listeners have listened to The Count of Monte Cristo, and Hunter, I think, has supplemented his physical book reading with the audiobook edition. I don't want to read a tome that way because I can read faster. As you have alluded to, I can read faster in physical book format. And so I want 10 or fewer hours that I know if I clean our house-- and I frequently will do it on a monday-- and it's about a six hour job, well, I've just read three quarters of an audio book and that feels good to me. And so I frequently will look for a 10 hours or fewer long audiobook. This is the other thing that I find fascinating, maybe you don't. What speed do you listen to?

Jordan [00:13:54] Almost always one.

Annie Jones [00:13:56] Okay.

Jordan [00:13:57] I also don't find an urgent need to clear the deck. If I get the 40 hour book and it stays there for six months and I also buy another one in the meantime, I don't feel a need to clear the deck until I get about 80% through with the book. And then I'm like, okay, let's get it done. I'm okay to let it linger.

Annie Jones [00:14:21] And that's harder for me. I can't really listen to a ton of audiobooks at once. I mean, obviously, I don't mean simultaneously, that would be ridiculous. But I can't. I get them muddied in my brain.

Jordan [00:14:38] Right.

Annie Jones [00:14:38] Interestingly, I don't feel that way about physical books at all. And so it's just fascinating--

Jordan [00:14:43] How the mind works in that way.

Annie Jones [00:14:45] Yes. How my brain works versus how yours works. I always also listened at one. I didn't even know it was an option to listen at different speeds until I think maybe some friends of my book club referenced it, maybe even some podcast listeners referenced it. I am still between one and 1.3. I don't think I've gone above 1.3. I have friends who listen at very high speeds-- and I think that's great-- I cannot retain information that way.

Jordan [00:15:11] I think maybe I press that button on a biography that was boring me and I was just thinking, okay, let me just see how much I can get through. But in general, I really love a good narration and it messes with it.

Annie Jones [00:15:26] I was about to say it depends on the narrator, too. There are some narrators who it benefits them to be sped up just a smidge. Again, I'm not talking-- I don't listen to more than one point [Crosstalk]. Yeah, but many narrators their cadence is important and so-- or for me anyway to listen to it. And so, yeah, I'm a 1.0 to 1.3. I don't think I've ever done even a 1.5. I don't think. But I know people who do so much higher.

Jordan [00:15:56] I'd really be curious to know, anyone listening, if you're one of those people that likes the two or greater, two times or greater, I'd be curious to know if you find that you love checking things off your to do list. In other words, is it a huge-- I'm not going to say compulsion-- but is it a huge joy to say I finished, I finished, I finished. For me, there's a lot of joy in starting a new book, and I'm a J on Myers-Briggs, but I'm a weak J so I can let things linger and get enjoyment out of that.

Annie Jones [00:16:31] We may be the same about this, so I can't listen to an audiobook while I'm doing work. So for example, if I'm listening to an audiobook at work, and I occasionally will at The Bookshelf, it's because I'm opening bills like I'm literally--

Jordan [00:16:45] Doing something rote.

Annie Jones [00:16:45] Yes, using a letter opener and opening all the bills. The moment I have to pay the bills and do math, the audiobook gets turned off.

Jordan [00:16:53] Yeah.

Annie Jones [00:16:54] The moment I have to type an email, the audiobook gets turned off because otherwise I will type whatever the narrator has just said. Like, my brain can't handle it. I'm curious. Can you listen to audiobooks while working? I would think not.

Jordan [00:17:11] Not well. I've tried before on a Saturday working outside around the house. But I do remember a time that I enjoyed an audiobook when I was like raking leaves off the roof. And I remember I was listening to 1984.

Annie Jones [00:17:28] Okay.

Jordan [00:17:28] And there was part of that where I was really enjoying it. But I can't do something any less rote than raking leaves on the roof.

Annie Jones [00:17:38] Yes, housework I can listen to an audiobook.

Jordan [00:17:40] And another thing about me, I love driving. I love being in the car. It is a joy to me. And I can definitely do other things while I do that, including listen to a book. But no, if I actually have to really do something that causes my brain to have to work, I'd rather listen to a podcast. I'd rather listen to a sports podcast or a financial podcast or something like that.

Annie Jones [00:18:04] The only other kind of audiobook specific question I have before we kind of move into the recommendation portion of the program, is a question that I honestly don't know your answer to, so I'll be curious to hear.

Jordan [00:18:14] It could be shocking.

Annie Jones [00:18:16] So audiobooks for me have become both something where I maybe listen to only the audiobook version, or a lot of times it's a supplementary tool. So if I really love a book, I want to be with that book all the time. I want to spend time with that book. And so I'll download the audiobook so that I can, while I'm at work, still be reading. While I'm in the car, still be listening. One of the audiobooks I just recently completed, on my Instagram reviews, I will say that I listened to the audiobook-- because I did. I probably listened to 75% of the book on audio, but I also read my physical copy and took notes in my physical copy. Now, I don't do both at once. So I don't listen to an audiobook while holding the book. I know readers who do that. I don't. But I do occasionally listen to an audiobook. Then let's say I get home from Target and I pick up my physical copy, turn to the page where I've now dropped off in my audiobook and read several chapters. Then maybe I clean the kitchen, and so I put the audiobook in. I do that a lot, way more than I ever thought I would. Do you do that? Or are you really mostly reading 100% of a book in audiobook format?

Jordan [00:19:35] If I'm doing the audiobook and I also do physical books, but not as much, but if I'm doing the audiobook, I'm generally only listening. Now, there are two exceptions to that. One is if I start an audiobook and it becomes apparent-- and we may talk about this later, I don't know-- but I think some books are more conducive to being listened to versus being read. And so sometimes I'll get one where I start listening to it and I realize, oops, this falls into that category of something that I really need to read. And I think that generally falls in the category of, for me, nonfiction books that introduce new concepts and where you need to like be able to look at the chart or look at the Myers-Briggs type.

Annie Jones [00:20:19] And you want to take notes.

Jordan [00:20:19] Take notes. Like a science book or something you want to highlight. That's one. And then the other time is when I listen to an audiobook and it's like an instant classic to Jordan Jones. It's like ESPN, like the game just went off, but then it's instant classic and you just flip over and watch it on ESPN Classics. This has happened a few times where I'll read a book like A Republic, If You Can Keep It. I listened to that book on audiobook and immediately was like, as a lawyer, I have to have that book. And so I'll buy it and I won't necessarily read it again.

Annie Jones [00:20:54] Right. But you have it in your library.

Jordan [00:20:55] But it'll be on the shelf. It's on my library. And the other day I was, like, I remember him saying something. I need to see what that case was. And so I went back and I looked and I found it. And that happens about 5% of the time.

Annie Jones [00:21:07] And I think we have customers who do that with e-books, where they have read the e-book and then they come in the store and they're, like, but I need a physical copy. Or the other day somebody came in and they had had a book from the library, but they immediately came to the bookshelf and said, "I read the library book version, but now I need these people on my shelf. I need these characters in my home.

Jordan [00:21:30] And I'll be honest, some of the very best books that I've ever listened to on audio, I don't feel a need to buy the book. I got the content and so it just kind of varies.

Annie Jones [00:21:39] Yeah. So let's dive into some specifics and maybe as we talk about some of our recommendations, we can also talk about books, like you said, that maybe are more conducive to audio book listening than they are even to the physical book format. So I divided these into my picks, your picks, and then mutual listens.

Jordan [00:21:57] Are mutual listens one that we listen to together or ones that we both listen to at some point maybe individually?

Annie Jones [00:22:03] Both.

Jordan [00:22:03] Okay, both.

Annie Jones [00:22:04] So we do listen together on road trips now and we'll still do podcast episodes. But on road trips we often will download an audiobook and listen to it together. So we'll talk about that. But then we also have books where you've listened to the audiobook version and immediately told me to or vice versa. So I'll go first with a couple of recommendations and then you do a couple of yours. So my first couple are books. The first one I'll talk about just briefly is Anna K. By Jenny Lee. This was narrated by the actress Jenna Ushkowitz. And I do find that a lot of fiction narrated by a voice actor or a former actor, actress or a stage actor, actress actually really captivates because it's a performance.

Jordan [00:22:47] Absolutely.

Annie Jones [00:22:48] And it enhances the reading. So Anna K was a book that I picked up because Hunter and I had read Anna Karenina together. And as a reward, we were reading this like young adult adaptation of an Anna K. And I was reading the physical copy, but it wasn't going fast enough for my taste. I downloaded the audiobook and loved the narrator, loved the story. I remember distinctly reading it around November, December, and I was able to like decorate for Christmas while listening to the audiobook.

Jordan [00:23:14] It added something to have the narration. And that's like when the Oscars, you're like, what is sound mixing? Like, that adds something to the movie? And I think sometimes this does too.

Annie Jones [00:23:23] Sometimes audiobooks, I think, are even better than the print format. And I may have liked Anna K anyway, but I really love the audiobook. Another one that falls into this category, and actually that is a book I think you would really enjoy, is Falling by TJ. Newman. This is a book I read in audiobook format last summer. It was a book that I only read in audiobook format. I did not have the physical copy. The narrator is a guy named Steven Weber, who's an actor, and I just had the best time listening to him. I thought it was such a phenomenal adaptation. I was on the edge of my seat. I was on a road trip by myself driving. And I felt like I did not want to stop the car because I thought, no, I am invested.

Jordan [00:24:06] Yeah, I've been there.

Annie Jones [00:24:07] Part of that was the action element, which is kind of interesting. I have not always been great at listening to fiction books in audiobook format. I kind of always thought I preferred nonfiction in audiobook format, but this is an example where the story is pretty riveting. It's about a hijacked plane. And so the action, it almost felt like it was playing out in a radio program or in a movie, in my mind. And so that's Falling by T.J. Newman, narrated by Steven Weber. Another one that I would put in this category is the book Funny you should Ask. This is a romantic comedy that I read earlier this year by Eliissa Sussman, but it was narrated by a voice actress named Kristin. Sieh, and I loved this book. This is an example of one of those books that I started reading the physical copy, loved it so much I did not want to put it down, but I had to go to work. So I went to work, listened to it in audiobook format, came home, finished it in physical book format.

Jordan [00:25:02] That's really funny to me.

Annie Jones [00:25:04] Because I just loved it so much and I was like, no, I'm invested. I want to spend all day with these people. And the only way I could do that right and still get work done was because of audiobooks. And sure enough, it's one that I kind of kept downloaded in my phone through Libro.fm. And when I needed just like a pick me up, I would listen to a chapter because I already knew the story, I'd already finished it. I had already read it. And I just loved being with those people so much.

Jordan [00:25:29] Yeah, that's really funny. That's interesting. I've never had that happen.

Annie Jones [00:25:32] So what about you? Give me an audiobook or two that you have really loved.

Jordan [00:25:36] Yeah. So, for me, I think there are books that are more conducive to listening versus reading and others that are more conducive to reading than listening. And on the far end of the scale, books that I would say are the most conducive for listening for me are ones that almost are more like plays with voice actors. It's kind of like if you love Shakespeare like me, you might like to read Shakespeare plays. I love reading Shakespeare plays, but that is not the medium those were intended to be enjoyed through. They were supposed to be acted out. And there are some books like that. They're just much better, I think, when they're being acted out by voices. And Lincoln in the Bardo is the perfect example of this. I think that the physical book is a little confusing and even off putting. You might not be able to get through the first few pages because it's off putting. But that's not because it's a bad book, it's just because I think it's better as a play. And the audiobook was so well done. You had 50 different voices, one of which was Nick Offerman. And it was phenomenal. Something that's also kind of like that is Behind Her Eyes, very different type of fiction. But that was an audiobook I loved because it's like first person-- I don't know, how do you say it? It's like first person narrative, but it's multiple different narrators. And I don't want to spoil anything, but there comes a time in the audiobook where a new narrator starts talking and it's off putting and it takes you aback. And then you start to realize it's a major plot point. I think I almost was like, what? Like, my jaw dropped open. But in those types of books, Lincoln in the Bardo and Behind Her Eyes, the voices add to the experience.

Annie Jones [00:27:33] And they're almost produced like radio plays. Absolutely. You were who recommended Lincoln in the Bardo to me.

Jordan [00:27:39] The audio version.

Annie Jones [00:27:40] Yes, I absolutely adored the audiobook version. And I do think that book would have been less accessible to me personally as a reader had I not listened to it. I think listening to it made that book a little bit easier for me to devour. The other book that comes to mind, or that I just finished recently, I don't know if I would have liked the print version of this book, but it was called Acts of Violet by Margarita Montemor. It's a book that Olivia read and loved, but I listened to the audiobook and it wound up it's a kind of a mystery book and there's a podcast element, and so the audiobook format pretends to be a podcast and there's like theme music. And the narrator changes to be narrated by the podcast host. And then there are different interviews. And so each interview is a different person, different narrator. And so that was a book that I think, sure, I could have read the physical version. And Olivia read the physical version and loved it, but I think my reading was enhanced and made better by listening to it. A book that Erin Fielding, who works in The Bookshelf, she just finished How Not to Drown in a Glass of Water. This is by Angie Cruz. I just downloaded this audiobook because Erin said, oh, the book is this woman who is kind of looking for a job. And so she's at these different job interviews. And then some of the book is transcripts, some of the book is email format. And she said the audiobook is narrated and sure enough, it's narrated by Kimberly Weatherall and then Rosemarie Amante and they kind of alternate, but also it's told like in an interview format or there are sound effects, like it's a production. And that's how Lincoln in the Bardo felt, it's how Acts of Violet felt. It feels like you're listening to an old timey radio show is the only way I can--

Jordan [00:29:27] Or live theater with music and everything.

Annie Jones [00:29:30] Yes. Another category-- I don't know that this would be true for you. But I do want to just briefly highlight the celebrity memoir that is narrated by the celebrity. There are a few examples of this. Not every celebrity should narrate their own memoir. That's not what I'm saying. But there are a few who are quite good at it. So earlier this year, I listened to Going There by Katie Couric. I think I could have read that book just fine. But I think my reading was better because Katie Couric was in my ear reading it to me, and there were snippets of her actual news broadcasts or her today shows like put in the audio version. And I think I could have read that, but I just had a blast listening to it. Stanley Tucci's taste, I liked that book in print format. I loved it in audiobook format. The book The Wreckage of My Presence by Casey Wilson, I don't know that I would have read that book at all, but Casey Wilson was such a delight to have in my ears that I could not put it down. And it was on audiobook that I started on a road trip and then I got home and like kept listening to it in the shower, like, could not put it down.

Jordan [00:30:36] Yeah. I love the idea that when you're listening to an author narrate his or her own book, that that narrator is telling you a story with the exact same inflection it's intended. And I've read several books by Supreme Court justices where they narrate their own. And it's astounding because you feel the hurt in their voice. You feel the triumph. You feel the passion. When you're reading a book, part of the joy of reading a book is you're narrating it yourself. You're hearing the voices. You read Hunger Games and you think, okay, I imagined Peeta is this. I imagined Katniss is that. And then you see the movie and you think, well, that doesn't sound like this. That voice is too high or whatever. But with when you're listening to a narration, that is how the author or narrator intended it to be said.

Annie Jones [00:31:30] And I think there is something about the memoir too. Like, I don't think that that's always true of fiction writers, because I don't know that fiction writers are necessarily great at reading their own work. I think it totally depends. But if you're an actor and you've written a book, you're probably going to be great at it. It's literally your job to tell a story in that format and it that way.

Jordan [00:31:49] It's part of acting.

Annie Jones [00:31:50] Another book that I read this way was You'll Never Believe What Happened to Lacey, which I'm laughing because it's a very funny book about racism. And it's told by Amber Ruffin, she's a writer for Late Night with Seth Meyers, and she's a comedian in her own right. And she co-wrote this book with her sister, Lacey. And Lacey lives in the Midwest, and she kind of is recounting all of this racist interactions that Lacey endured. But it's these two sisters narrating together, and it was like sitting across from a table where these two sisters are joking back and forth.

Jordan [00:32:25] Overhearing the conversation.

Annie Jones [00:32:27] Yes. And so I don't know that I would have had as good of a reading experience. Even though I love physical books and I love print books, there are some cases in which I actually think the audiobook is better.

Jordan [00:32:40] Yeah.

Annie Jones [00:32:40] Okay. Talk to me about some other maybe fiction books that you've listened to in audiobook format.

Jordan [00:32:46] Yeah, I've found that-- I mentioned this before-- there are some tomes that are fiction that audiobooks kind of saved my life on. Lord of the Rings was one of these things. I love Lord of the Rings. I love the story. I love almost everything about it. But I had not read Lord of the Rings until quite later in life. And I finally got an audiobook from the nineties where this British guy narrates and he actually sings in places where the hobbits are actually singing. Like, in the book, you see, it's italicized. And Pippin goes around and there's a song for when you take a bath. And there's a song for when you're on the road. And there's a song from when you eat. And there's a song for when you drink. Whatever you're doing, there's a song for it. I mean, it sounds like an 80-year-old British guy. The delight to hear that man sing that truly brought it to life in a way that I couldn't get past 10 pages. So apparently there's a new Lord of the Rings version that's even better. My Tolkien friend recommended it, so I need to check that out. But Lord of the Rings. And then like I said before, some of these tomes I got through because of audiobooks, I would not have been able to otherwise. And then I think another type of book that I really enjoy is fiction books that you kind of have to think about. Gripping fiction, I'll say it that way. Gripping fiction, things like Blake Crouch books, Recursion and Dark Matter. Things where you're kind of thinking like let me put that together. What does that mean from a scientific standpoint or from a time travel standpoint.

Annie Jones [00:34:26] And kind of the action of it. I don't know what it is about a book like that, but I like the audio versions of that too.

Jordan [00:34:31] It ups the ante. It makes it feel like it is rushing to the conclusion. I really enjoy another type of book on audio where you have like a unreliable narrator. The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime was just very funny and also heartwarming to me because it's about a kid with autism. And the book is narrated by this boy. And the audiobook is just phenomenal. It's a good narrator. He just does a good job of sounding like a kid that age. A couple other ones are Defending Jacob. When Breath Becomes Air.

Annie Jones [00:35:18] When Breath Becomes is a memoir, though. That falls into that memoir category. I can't remember who narrated that one. You're talking about the different voices or different... I just was thinking, there's a book that I've been listening to and I've been listening to it for a while, but that's honestly just because I started listening to it when I had COVID. And so it was like my steamy shower. I don't mean steamy like PG 13 rated.

Jordan [00:35:43] Unclogging your nostrils.

Annie Jones [00:35:43] Yeah, I was taking these steamy showers to try to clear my head and I would listen to this just while I was in the showers. And it was All That's Left Unsaid, which is a new fiction book by Tracey Leon. And I was listening to the audiobook. I love the narrator because the author is Australian. And so, of course, the narration then is also Australian. But because the book is kind of told from these few different perspectives, I was listening, listening, listening, thought, oh, this is great. And then the next chapter, if it's not a child, it's some actress doing a phenomenal childlike voice. Because all of a sudden I was a little bit like, wait, what? Like, it kind of jolted me into reawakening and kind of relistening to this book. And it immediately got my attention and made me pay attention. I'm really enjoying that book and it's partly because there are different narrators and there is that voice of a child. I also think about the book Rabbit Cake by Annie Hartnett. This is a backlist title, but the book is narrated by a kid and the audiobook narrator is not a kid, but she's got that cadence so down pat. I just fell in love with that character because I heard her so vividly in my brain. You've been listening to a couple of recent audiobooks. A lot of the books we've talked about are a little bit what we would call backlist titles. What are some maybe more front list or more recent picks that you've been listening to in audiobook format?

Jordan [00:37:10] So right now I'm in the middle of the one that you recommended, which is Everything Said is Untrue.

Annie Jones [00:37:16] Yes. And that's narrated by the author.

Jordan [00:37:18] Yes. And it's really funny because he narrates-- at least the part that I'm in right now-- is his elementary school years, middle school years. And there are some things that the way that he says it, you know that he was there for it. And you know that he was a sixth grade boy for it. You know, the way he talks about girls, he likes this girl and she doesn't notice him. So he just decides to wait around until she decides to like him and doesn't think he's weird. And just the way that he talks, like, everyone who's a man or a boy, we've been there. And he does a good job of narrating it. And then I also just finished one that's a little bit older, but it's called the Fourth Turning, and it's nonfiction. And it's about generations. It's about the generations in the United States and about how each one plays a different role. Millennials and Gen Xers and Boomers and Silents and G.Is and what they all went through and what happens when they each come of age in different life phases. And it's like seasonal.

Annie Jones [00:38:20] Okay.

Jordan [00:38:22] It's like Fall, Winter... And every society goes through each of those turnings. So the fourth turning is where we are now when millennials are coming of age and we're the heroes of the story right now. And the prophets, the older ones are the boomers. And it's really interesting. That's a good example of one where I thought, man, I really probably need the physical version of this book because I need to highlight it and I need to make notes. And then there's another one that I just finished on audiobook called Death Is But A Dream.

Annie Jones [00:38:50] You talked about this one a lot.

Jordan [00:38:51] Which was nonfiction of a different time. Where this is about a man who is a medical doctor and he went into the profession and he discovered that he felt like he was being called to hospice, which he says is kind of looked down on in the medical field because hospice is acknowledging that medicine can't do anything else. It's time to minister to the soul instead of the body. And so he was telling true stories. It's a research project of the visions and the dreams that people have at their end of life, from kids to old men and women and truly, truly, touching a. Heartbreaking, but also incredibly joyful and amazing and upbeat, honestly. And it's a research project he's doing. He documents the similarities regardless of the background of their faith or their age or their culture, they have similar dreams and similar visions.

Annie Jones [00:39:57] That might be good for folks who like When Breath becomes Air, which you mentioned earlier.

Jordan [00:40:02] A hundred Percent. He references that book.

Annie Jones [00:40:03] Oh, okay.

Jordan [00:40:04] So it's very much in that same area, but it's not a memoir. When Breath Becomes Air is more about Paul Kalanithi's life and who he was as a man and as a doctor. Where is this? There is overlap, but this is an MD's objective study of willing, consenting, dying people. And it's about their lives and it's more of a cross-section, but it is really touching, really good.

Annie Jones [00:40:32] So you and I think it's apparent do read very differently when we listen to our audiobooks. I am drawn to either memoirs or well-narrated fiction. You really like kind of unreliable narrators or nonfiction or when you're trying to kind of get through a classic work of literature. I think there is some overlap. I just finished a book called The River of the Gods by Candice Millard. I think that's a book actually that you would also love. It's got a great narrator, but it's nonfiction about the exploration of the Nile. And I think you would love that book.

Jordan [00:41:05] I would like that too.

Annie Jones [00:41:06] But you and I also listen to audiobooks together. So we do this when we are on road trips, when we're headed to an airport because there is no airport locally. When we're headed out of town to go somewhere, you and I will download an audiobook. I know I mostly am the one curating it, but what do you think we look for in a mutual audiobook listen?

Jordan [00:41:33] It's usually nonfiction and it's either true crime--

Annie Jones [00:41:38] Okay. We have done a lot of true crime.

Jordan [00:41:39] --or essays. Or something related to the production of the arts. And I love this about our road trips, I always look forward to this. One of the ones we did was the book about the Harper Lee book that never came to be. Furious Hours.

Annie Jones [00:41:57] Oh, I forgot we read that one on audio. You're right.

Jordan [00:42:00] That was phenomenal to me. And that was true crime, but it was also culture. [Crosstalk].

Annie Jones [00:42:06] Something you and I were both familiar with. Like, it took place partly at Lake Martin.

Jordan [00:42:10] And we were driving through different areas. And they were, like, this used to be a church and now the church is at the bottom of the lake. And I see it right there. You know what I mean. It was bizarre. So true crime or fiction crime like Survive the Night.

Annie Jones [00:42:24] I was about to say we did Survive the Night the Riley Sager book, which isn't a book maybe that I really love, but I sure did love reading it because you and I were kind of on the edge of our seats by the end.

Jordan [00:42:35] Absolutely. Yeah, it was good.

Annie Jones [00:42:35] And we were pulling into the driveway of our destination when we finished. And I think we're both really glad we had done that.

Jordan [00:42:41] Yes. I can't say enough about the John Green collection of essays.

Annie Jones [00:42:49] I don't know how you beat it.

Jordan [00:42:50] I mean, it is like a pinnacle of art for 2022.

Annie Jones [00:42:56] Yeah. I wonder if that's partly because he is such an expert storyteller across types of stories. So he hosts the podcasts. He's great at video content. Because that audio book was such a pleasure to listen to, just a true delight. .

Jordan [00:43:12] And a lot of content. I learned so much. I like things where we learn and we're like, oh, I didn't know that.

Annie Jones [00:43:16] Well, that's what I'm going to say, because we also have done, I feel like, some David Sedaris books.

Jordan [00:43:20] Yes.

Annie Jones [00:43:20] And those are hilarious, but they are very different. Like, it's very personal. It's a memoir. Whereas, these John Green essays, I mean, I was moved to tears occasionally.

Jordan [00:43:30] You don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Annie Jones [00:43:32] Yeah. We're, like, dying, laughing in the car. It was so unique. And I found it incredibly easy to listen to, much like I recommend physical essay books for people who are short on time, or maybe new moms who are adjusting to a new reading life.

Jordan [00:43:50] You can knock out an essay in like 5 minutes. And it's hard to even say what the theme is. I mean, the only theme is that he gives something a certain number of stars, like, I give this one star or two stars. He's making fun and poking fun of the fact that in 2022, everything gets reviewed. It's like this church got four stars, maybe we should go there. This restaurant got two stars. This movie got 10 stars. And he's joking about, like, trying to apply the star system to rainbows and like Coca-Cola and all these things. I can't even describe beyond that what the book's about. But you just have to trust us, it's phenomenal.

Annie Jones [00:44:33] It'll be one of my favorite books of the year, even though it was published last year. I just loved it so much.

Jordan [00:44:38] And he narrates. Yeah, that was John Green.

Annie Jones [00:44:40] I think he's quite gifted in that way. Another book that I just want to talk about, because you and I just finished it, I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before because we had started it, oh, I don't know, a few weeks ago, maybe a month or two ago, but we finally finished it. And it's Directed by James Burrows, which is by James Burrows. You and I have talked a lot-- even if we've just talked around it-- about the power of the audiobook narrator and I think this is kind of an exception to that, because I think you and I both agreed that James Burrows, the beloved, iconic director of classic television shows.

Jordan [00:45:13] Of every show that you've liked.

Annie Jones [00:45:15] Yeah, is not a particularly gifted audiobook narrator.

Jordan [00:45:18] Agreed.

Annie Jones [00:45:19] And you know what, you don't know this, but we listened to that at 1.1. I sped him up.

Jordan [00:45:24] Well that's why he wasn't gifted is because we artificially sped him up.

Annie Jones [00:45:29] No, we sped him up because, bless him, he needed it. I did not find him to be a particularly great audiobook narrator. And yet, because you and I had watched Cheers, because we were familiar and watched Friends and Will and Grace and all of these shows that he played a hand in, I did find his narration endearing, even though I felt like that wasn't maybe the thing he was best at.

Jordan [00:45:55] Agreed. And I don't know that if I had sat down and read it I would have done better.

Annie Jones [00:46:01] I don't either.

Jordan [00:46:02] In fact, there was one when he started talking about Cheers, which I think is more of his baby than any of the other shows, even though he did a lot of shows. There was a moment in time where he was reading the script to help the listener understand why it was funny or how the characters interplay. And he was reading Sam and Diane and Cliff and Norm sitting at the bar. And I looked at you and I said, "He doesn't sound like those folks, but he's reading those lines with the exact same cadence and passion that we had just watched." we were watching Cheers at the same time and enunciating the exact... And he directed that. He probably told Ted Danson say it like this. If not, maybe Ted Danson said it a certain way and James Burrows remembered that's how he said it. So that's what it became. And so I could sense a piece of himself in that. Beyond that, that was the only time where I thought, well, I'm glad he's narrating it. You know, other than that.

Annie Jones [00:47:08] And you're right. I don't know if I would have liked the physical book better. Now, the book got great reviews. Like, critics liked it. I think it is a legitimately good book. I also like books like that. I weirdly take away a lot in terms of management style. I'm fascinated by how shows are run and I weirdly--

Jordan [00:47:26] Interpersonal relationships, personalities.

Annie Jones [00:47:28] I agree. I find them to be the most effective business books. But I am glad we listened to it because I don't know if I would have enjoyed it any more in print format. Despite him maybe not being the world's best narrator, it's still very much his story. So it was kind of lovely to hear him tell it.

Jordan [00:47:43] And I think he's comfortable with the fact that he did directing, he was terrible and everything else. I would also mention that I think this book was very good because not only did he go through all of the shows that he participated in and worked, on at the end he gives good advice to people in show business. So if you find yourself in a career where you're getting into directing or acting or anything even remotely relating to theater, he was also talking about live theater a lot and the differences.

Annie Jones [00:48:15] Yeah, you could tell he loves live theater..

Jordan [00:48:16] He gives good advice. Like, if that were my craft, it's like some of the books I read by Supreme Court justices or lawyers where it's like I'm also sitting at this man or this woman's feet and learning about how to perfect my craft. If show business or anything related to it is your craft, you've got to read it.

Annie Jones [00:48:36] Yeah. Agreed. So those are some of the books. You and I are headed on a road trip-- kind of a small one-- at the end of October. And it'll be interesting to see what we pick going into fall.

Jordan [00:48:46] It will be.

Annie Jones [00:48:47] But I really have turned around on audiobooks and I think that is partly due to you. So thank you so much.

Jordan [00:48:54] So you are admitting that you were wrong before?

Annie Jones [00:48:56] Yes.

Jordan [00:48:56] Okay. That's very big of you.

Annie Jones [00:48:58] It's important.

Jordan [00:48:59] We don't have enough of that. We don't have enough of that today.

Annie Jones [00:49:02] From me?

Jordan [00:49:02] No, no, no. In general. You're good at it. You're good at it.

Annie Jones [00:49:06] Well, yeah. Well, that's what I said at the top of the episode. We need to be willing to say we want to change our minds.

Jordan [00:49:09] Have to be willing to say we were wrong. Yeah.

Annie Jones [00:49:12] And I'm glad I changed my mind about audiobooks. Truly, audiobooks I do feel like partly saved my reading life over the pandemic. They certainly enhanced it, and I think kept me reading at a time when my brain wasn't always capable of the printed format.

Jordan [00:49:26] That's interesting that it took the pandemic to get you there. Even in my healthiest state, I couldn't get through certain books. And I think it's important when you see someone else that maybe uses a different medium than you do to realize it might not be that they're immature or stupid, it might be that they just learn differently. And I've managed people who learn differently. Audio, visual or they have to do it. They have to physically do it. And we're all different. And I think it's important to figure out what you need so that then you can take in whatever that thing is and then be able to discuss it with your friends.

Annie Jones [00:50:06] Right. Because the point is, we want to be reading.

Jordan [00:50:07] Exactly.

Annie Jones [00:50:08] Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Jordan.

Jordan [00:50:10] Glad to be here.

Annie Jones [00:50:12] This week I'm reading The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-time Indian by Sherman Alexie. Jordan, what are you reading?

Jordan [00:50:20] I'm reading on audiobook. Everything Said is untrue by Daniel Nayeri. And just finished the Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe.

Annie Jones [00:50:31] From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram @Bookshelftville, and all the books from today's episode can be purchased online through our store website: Bookshelfthomasville.com.

[00:50:47] A full transcript of today's episode can be found at Fromthefrontporchpodcast.com. Special thanks to Studio D Podcast Production for production of From the Front Porch and for our theme music which sets the perfect, warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.

[00:51:01] Our executive producers of today's episode are Donna Hechler. Cami Tidwell.

Executive Producers (Read their own names) [00:51:07] Nicole Marsee. Wendy Jenkins. Laurie Johnson. Kate Johnston. Tucker.

Annie Jones [00:51:13] Thank you all for your support of From the Front Porch. If you'd like to support From the Front Porch, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your input helps us make the show even better and reach new listeners. All you have to do is open up the podcast app on your phone, look for From the Front Porch, scroll down until you see 'Write a Review' and tell us what you think.

[00:51:30] Or, if you're so inclined, you can support us over on Patreon, where we have three levels of support. Front Porch Friends, Book Club Companions and Bookshelf Benefactors. Each level has an amazing number of benefits, like bonus content, access to live events, discounts and giveaways. Just go to Patreon.com/fromthefrontporch. We're so grateful for you and we look forward to meeting back here next week.

Caroline WeeksSeptember 22, 2022