Episode 437 || Bookmarked with Annie & Hunter
This week on From the Front Porch, a familiar series gets a fresh new name! Backlist Book Club was where Annie and Hunter read or re-read an award-winning book that came out several years prior. Now, it’s called Bookmarked with Annie and Hunter! This time on Bookmarked, they’re discussing Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri. You can purchase your copy here.
To purchase the books mentioned in this episode, visit our website (type “Episode 437” into the search bar to easily find the books mentioned in this episode):
Annie and Hunter’s selection for the next episode of Bookmarked is: Train Dreams by Denis Johnson
Roman Stories by Jhumpa Lahiri (releases October 10th, 2023)
From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in South Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website, www.bookshelfthomasville.com.
A full transcript of today’s episode can be found below.
Special thanks to Dylan and his team at Studio D Podcast Production for sound and editing and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.
This week, Annie is reading to Lazy City by Rachel Connolly (releases October 3rd, 2023). Hunter is reading This Other Eden by Paul Harding.
If you liked what you heard in today’s episode, tell us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also support us on Patreon, where you can access bonus content, monthly live Porch Visits with Annie, our monthly live Patreon Book Club with Bookshelf staffers, Conquer a Classic episodes with Hunter, and more. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch.
We’re so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.
Our Executive Producers are...Ashley Ferrell, Cammy Tidwell, Chanta Combs, Chantalle C, Kate O’Connell, Kristin May, Laurie Johnson, Linda Lee Drozt, Martha, Nicole Marsee, Stacy Laue, Stephanie Dean, Susan Hulings, and Wendi Jenkins.
Transcript:
[squeaky porch swing]
Welcome to From the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business, and life in the South.
[music plays out]
“Still, there are times I am bewildered by each mile I have traveled, each meal I have eaten, each person I have known, each room in which I have slept. As ordinary as it all appears, there are times when it is beyond my imagination.”
- Jhumpa Lahiri, Interpreter of Maladies
[as music fades out] I’m Annie Jones, owner of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in beautiful downtown Thomasville, Georgia, and this week, I’m joined by frequent From the Front Porch guest Hunter McLendon (though you might know him as @ShelfbyShelf on Instagram). If you’re a regular listener, you probably know that one of our main goals is to grow the show to 10,000 listeners. We are getting so close and getting about 9000 listeners per episode. A lot of that is thanks to everyone who has left a review. Here’s one of my favorite recent reviews, from ilovemusic.period:
Absolutely Adore I have come to completely love and wait with bated breath for new episodes of this show. I adore Annie B Jones, her thoughtful reviews and helpful recommendations about books, her great camaraderie with occasional guest Hunter, the amazing Patreon content they provide. I just love it.
If you haven’t left a review, all you have to do is open up the Podcast App on your phone, look for From the Front Porch, scroll down until you see ‘Write a Review’ and tell us what you think. And, speaking of Patreon, if you love hearing from Hunter, you can hear us discuss Charles Dickens’ Bleak House in our Conquer a Classic episodes. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch to begin listening for $5 a month.
Annie Jones [00:01:57] Now back to the show. Hi, Hunter.
Hunter [00:01:59] Hello.
Annie Jones [00:02:00] Wasn't that review so nice?
Hunter [00:02:02] It was. Listen, if you want to make my day, say good things about me. I love hearing good things about myself and people I care about, obviously.
Annie Jones [00:02:10] I picked that review because it specifically mentioned you, and there are quite a few that specifically mention you. Isn't that delightful?
Hunter [00:02:17] What can I say? Just star quality. I have always felt deeply honored to have any time on this show because I love being able to talk about books with you.
Annie Jones [00:02:29] It really is one of my favorite things. Okay. So this year we rebranded our beloved Backlist Book Club series, and now these quarterly episodes are called Bookmarked with Annie and Hunter. And today we are talking about the Pulitzer winning novel Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri. We wanted listeners to be able to engage with these episodes without feeling like they had to do homework first. And we hope these episodes are accessible, whether you've read the book already or are inspired to read after listening to our conversation. I really do love these because they're like mini book club.
Hunter [00:03:02] They are. I think all the time about whenever you and I first kind of became friends. I would come to you and you'd be like, "Oh, I just read this book. You have to read it." And then we would sit at the table at The Bookshelf and just sit there and discuss these little books about 10 to 15 minutes and then go on about our days. And this really does kind of keep that feeling.
Annie Jones [00:03:25] Yeah, it totally does. We did Tinkers back in April. I remember because the episode number is 420. And I'm pretty sure it landed in April. So we did Tinkers. We've been doing Pulitzer winners. We did Pulitzer winners last year as part of Backlist Book Club. And, look, we're also reading Bleak House. So we're trying to be mindful of each other's reading time, which I really appreciate. So we've tried to pick specifically shorter Pulitzer winners. And next, I don't know if you remember that we already figured this out, but I believe in early November we're going to do Train Dreams by Dennis Johnson.
Hunter [00:04:03] I'm very excited for that.
Annie Jones [00:04:05] I am too. So if you are a listener who really does prefer to read these ahead of listening to the recording, you can go ahead and get a head start. The next selection will be Train Dreams by Dennis Johnson. Okay. That being said, have you read Interpreter of Maladies before?
Hunter [00:04:22] Yes, I actually read it the first time back in 2018. It's so funny because I don't know if I told you about this, but there's a nonfiction book called Emperor of All Maladies. It's a book about cancer. And I had heard about Interpreter of Maladies and was like, oh, that sounds like such a good you know... And so I went and I thought, okay. I couldn't remember exactly what the title was and I was like, it's a book about maladies, Pulitzer. And the person was like, oh, this is what it is. And they handed me an Emperor of All Maladies.
Annie Jones [00:04:56] Oh, wow.
Hunter [00:04:56] Yeah. And so I read a book about cancer. Very interesting, actually. I highly recommend it.
Annie Jones [00:05:00] You always are so good at reading outside of genre, even accidentally.
Hunter [00:05:06] And it was so fascinating too. And then after I read it, I told everyone I was like, "You guys said it was a short story collection, but it's not." And then everyone's like, "What are you talking about?" And I was describing it and I was like all this cancer, and they're like, there is no-- like, what? And so, yes. I read this back in 2018 and I have read, I think, almost every book by her at this point.
Annie Jones [00:05:30] Oh, wow.
Hunter [00:05:31] She's become one of my favorites, for sure.
Annie Jones [00:05:33] So she has a new book. I think that's part of the reason we chose this, is because she has a new book called Romance Stories coming out in October. Little fun fact, so this is a new to me book. Obviously, I've heard of it. We carry it at The Bookshelf pretty much on regular rotation. We have stocked all of her other books, but for whatever reason, I have never read her. I associate her with The Mindy Project because Mindy Kaling named her character Mindy Lahiri because of Jhumpa Lahiri. And so I was familiar with her only in a pop cultural sense. And when I think of you, I think of short stories because I think you're somebody I just-- I don't know. I think in our early years of friendship you read a lot of short stories and you helped me. I mean, I loved the genre because-- this sounds like a high school girl thing to say. No shade to high school girls. I was one and I loved being one. But I think I first fell in love with short stories because of Franny and Zooey and because of JD Salinger. And what is that famous short story called? A Perfect Day for Banana Fish or whatever? I fell in love with it and felt very literary when I was a senior in high school. And so I've enjoyed short stories moving into like Flannery O'Connor. And then in my early tenure at The Bookshelf, Katherine Heiny and reading Single Carefree and Mellow or Jennifer Close. But I associate that with something you read. And I think that's partly because you always, in my mind, had such highbrow tastes. You came into The Bookshelf and always talked about the most literary things. But also, I think it's because in our friendship, in our first few years of friendship, you and I both read Fortune Smiles.
Hunter [00:07:17] Yes.
Annie Jones [00:07:18] And that short story collection just sticks out to me and is, in my mind, a part of our friendship origin story. I don't know if that holds true for you too.
Hunter [00:07:30] Oh, it does. Because that book won the National Book Award back in 2015, which was the same year that the Turner House by Angela Flournoy was shortlisted, as well as A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara, and Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff.
Annie Jones [00:07:46] Oh my gosh, what a year.
Hunter [00:07:48] Yeah. So think about the fact that Fortune Smiles, which is actually very underrated. And I actually do think that I wish more people had read it. I think a lot of people were kind of disappointed that it won over.
Annie Jones [00:08:00] Yeah, they were frustrated and probably took it out on that book a little bit.
Hunter [00:08:03] Yeah. And Cindy Bear. You look at which books that stood the test of time or a bit longer and it makes sense. But I ended up loving Fortune Smiles. And I think that the way that he writes characters that are so hard to engage with and yet you still find a way in.
Annie Jones [00:08:21] I think part of the reason I'll never forget that collection is because one of the stories is about a pedophile.
Hunter [00:08:26] Yeah. Dark Meadows-- I think it's called. [Inaudible].
Annie Jones [00:08:32] It was very startling to read. So recently-- just speaking of short stories and it was so fun to kind of accidentally do this, but I just finished a book that's going to come out in October called This Is Salvaged. I think I told you about it.
Hunter [00:08:46] Yes.
Annie Jones [00:08:47] And that author reminded me a little bit of Adam Johnson. That's who wrote Fortune Smiles, right?
Hunter [00:08:54] Yes.
Annie Jones [00:08:55] Anyway, her name is Vauhini Vara. And she is a student-- I believe she took some classes maybe or a workshop or something with Adam Johnson. She names him in the acknowledgments. She is also a writer who talks about or writes about the Indian American experience. She herself, I believe, maybe was born in Canada. Anyway, there's a beautiful story in that collection that I think was inspired by her own sister's story. And so, I just fell in love with it. And then it wound up being quite serendipitous, I think, that this reading experience shortly followed that one. So if you're listening to this and you've already read Interpreter of Maladies and you're looking for a read alike-- although I think short stories are sometimes hard to find, read alikes for every story is so different. But I think This is Salvaged might scratch the itch. And I think Hunter you would really like that. It comes out I think in October.
Hunter [00:09:46] I'm very excited for it. I do also have to say, because I think people get kind of weary of short story collections or just short stories in general because the thing is that we understand the way that a novel functions, that's just much more like inherently l get it.
Annie Jones [00:10:05] We know how that narrative arc works.
Hunter [00:10:07] Right. But I think a lot of people describe a short story almost just like a Polaroid. It's just one quick moment in time. And I think there's a lot of short story writers who do a lot more than just create like one particular moment. I think they can create a really extensive world. But I do have to say, if you're somebody who is weary of short stories, I actually started reading short stories more because I read a short story collection by Tom Perrotta called Nine Inches, and I did not understand. I was like, these stories are starting and they end, what's the point? And I was desperate to understand how they worked. And so I just kept reading and kept reading and kept reading until eventually it clicked. And now I love them. And so, I think sometimes it just takes patience in finding the right short story writers for you.
Annie Jones [00:10:56] Because they are also different. I think that's the other thing. Not all short stories are created equal. Not all short story writers are doing the same thing. And it has become a genre that I really do enjoy, especially when it's done well. And I think I said this in a recent episode from the Front Porch, that I think considering our modern crisis that we keep reading about shortened attention spans and where has our focus gone, I actually think short stories are a great antidote to that. I think they're a great response and a great solution to if you feel a little bit all over the place, anybody can sit down and take 15 minutes, 30 minutes and read a short story. And then put the book down and move on or pick up another story later. So I think if you're hesitant, I would actually encourage you to give it a try. And you don't have to finish a whole collection if you don't want to. Just read a couple of stories here and there.
Hunter [00:11:51] Right.
Annie Jones [00:11:52] Okay. This was my first Jhumpa Lahiri. I loved it so much. I texted you. We try not to and we've barely talked about this book off air because we try to save the content for the podcast. But I did text you yesterday after I finished A Temporary Matter, which is the story that she opens with. And I was so moved and I thought, oh dear, is this going to set the tone? And I'm here to tell you, it does set the tone. I have some other stories that are my favorites, and I hope we'll talk about this one at length, but including the closing story. But there is something about a temporary matter. And I always think about writers and how they and their editors choose what story is going to open a collection and how they're going to kind of grab you and maybe set the theme for the collection or whatever. It's a gut wrenching story.
Hunter [00:12:52] It is. Like I said, I read this collection the first time back in 2018. And if you think that I come across as sometimes emotionally unstable now, you should have seen me back in 2018. Because I remember reading the opening story, A Temporary Matter, and it's about this married couple who I believe you know early like at the beginning that they had lost a child. But basically they're kind of like avoiding talking about this issue. But then their power source goes out at night.
Annie Jones [00:13:26] Yeah. They get this notice right from their electric company that's like, hey, for the next five days, your power is going to go out at 8:00 p.m.. I think anybody who has either a) attended a slumber party, or b) sat in a car on a road trip, there is something about being in a confined space with someone or being in the dark with someone that allows you to say things you couldn't say. And so that's the premise of the story, which I thought was brilliant. So this couple who is grieving the loss of this child, we know this immediately, they now have to sit alone together in the dark eating dinner. And they've been grieving in their separate spaces or eating dinner in their separate spots in the house. I just think it's such a brilliant storytelling device.
Hunter [00:14:17] Yeah. Well, the thing is, without giving anything away about it, I think you could break this down on a technical level and it could be like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense because you have this storytelling, the bias of like you're putting these people in this situation. One person has one very clear idea of what they think about where they're at over the world and where their marriage is at. And you have another person who thinks something entirely different and they just aren't communicating about it. But there's something about how she breaths life into this story. It really transcends being just like a technically good story into being a true moment of real people living a complicated life. And you're right. Did you cry or tear up at all?
Annie Jones [00:15:06] I teared up at the end. I may have even teared up at the beginning when I realized that they had lost a child. And the fact part of the reason I think anybody's marriage would hit a crisis point after something like that, after a loss that that deep. But in particular, their marriage hits a crisis point because he was away from home on business when she went into labor. And his deep guilt over that and the fact that they just cannot connect after that loss is just so deeply moving. And then I think one of the things I loved about it was I felt like I was sitting in the dark at the table with them. I feel like maybe I'm getting deja vu. I feel like you and I have talked about this before, but this idea of like a writer kind of whispering and you have to lean in to hear what they're saying. And I felt like this couple was whispering and, like, telling each other secrets. And I, as the reader, had to lean in so that I could hear better. And the whole thing is just-- I think what I am always amazed at in a short story, is you describe them or they've been described as Polaroids or snapshots. And I think that's for sure true. This is a snapshot of a marriage in a particular moment in time. But it also feels like an entire life. It feels like an entire encapsulation of a relationship, even though it's just one glimmer. You kind of know their whole story in just a few pages. It's nuts.
Hunter [00:16:54] I always tell people like the best short stories truly fit a novel worth of information in less than 20 pages.
Annie Jones [00:17:03] Which I just think authors don't get enough credit for to be honest.
Hunter [00:17:07] Some of these sentences, they're so full. It's like it's all just so full. And it's like, how did you do that? Also, this story actually reminded me, did you ever see Rabbit Hole with Nicole Kidman?
Annie Jones [00:17:18] No, I didn't. I know what you're talking about, but I didn't see it.
Hunter [00:17:21] I loved that movie. I like the play. I own the play. I will re-enact the play to my dog and she does not like it, but it's fine. It's about a couple who lose a child. And there is a scene where the character Pokémon plays. So her mother has also lost a child and they're kind of talking about this feeling and if it ever goes away. And I think that it's so funny because rereading this and I had just actually recently rewatched that movie, it's one of the things where having a visual representation Nicole Kidman's crying face, in the back of my mind while reading this story, I was like, "Well, I know what that pain looks like, apparently, because I've seen Nicole Kidman portray it." And so I was doubly overwhelmed emotionally from it. Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:18:18] So A Temporary Matter is how she opens the collection. Would you consider it one of your favorite stories after the whole collection is finished?
Hunter [00:18:23] Oh, yes. Not only what I consider one of my favorite stories of the collection, I also think that story is just one of my favorites. It's funny because it wasn't my top when I finished the collection, it was in my top three, I think. But when I first finished it, I knew I liked it, but I didn't know if I loved it. But it's the one that I remembered the most over time.
Annie Jones [00:18:44] That's the thing. And this is what I come back to all the time. When people ask, "How do you star rate a book because this can feel so subjective?" But, for me, a five star read often boils down to what is memorable. Like, what am I going to remember? What am I going to recount to Jordan later? What is going to stick with me? And this story, I really do think that when it's all said and done, there will be two stories that I remember. I hesitate to say forever, but I feel like I'll remember them forever. One is A Temporary Matter, and then the other is the closing story. The Third and Final Continent, which I finished it and I did cry at the end and I thought, I can't wait to talk to Hunter about how Jhumpa Lahiri stuck the landing. Because we care so much about how authors close out, whether it's a collection or a novel. We care how they finish. And I thought that story was so well told and so well ended. And I think that story is another one of my favorites and maybe my favorite of the whole collection and will also stick with me for a very long time.
Hunter [00:19:53] Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:19:54] I didn't know this when I was reading it, obviously. But after I finished, I did some very late research preparing for this episode, and I saw that story, which is about an Indian man who moves to America to work as a library at MIT, and he stays in this boarding house with this 103-year-old woman. And I really don't want to say more than that. I just think it's a really, again, interestingly told story. But then when I was doing some research, I saw that Jhumpa Lahiri wrote that story inspired by her librarian father, which I thought was lovely.
Hunter [00:20:35] As a side note about her, I don't know if you know this, but she taught herself Italian.
Annie Jones [00:20:40] Yeah, no, I do know this because a lot of I think all the stories are set in or around Rome. She wrote an Italian novel.
Hunter [00:20:52] Yes. And then translated it from Italian to English. Because I guess she was bored and was, like, I need something else to challenge me.
Annie Jones [00:21:00] It's truly stunning information. She must be a genius.
Hunter [00:21:05] Well, she is a MacArthur genius actually, so...
Annie Jones [00:21:09] Okay. So literally a genius.
Hunter [00:21:10] Yeah. Let me tell you, I don't know if you ever feel like this. Sometimes I think to myself, "Oh, that genius did that. Yes. Me also a genius should do that too." And then I attempt and cry because I cannot.
Annie Jones [00:21:26] Yes. Well, look, any creative person I think you have to think. You have to be a little-- I hate to use the word arrogant, but kind of. You have to be a little bit in love with your own talent to think to yourself, "Oh, yeah, I could do that." And then you sit down to try to do it, and you're like, oh, crap, but I cannot. Oh, dear, I am not the genius I thought I was.
Hunter [00:21:53] That is literally 90% of my life.
Annie Jones [00:21:57] Okay. So there were two other stories that stuck out to me. One, I'm not sure if I'll remember it when it's all said and done, but This Blessed House where the husband and wife move into this home and they don't know each other super well. They meet and have gotten married within four months time. They're cleaning up the house and everywhere they look, they find Christian iconography.
Hunter [00:22:25] Yes.
Annie Jones [00:22:27] They're Hindu and the wife becomes obsessed. She's like, oh my gosh, the stuff is so great, so kitschy, it's so fun. And she also finds real beauty in it. She finds this poster, I think, or this painting of Christ, and she hangs it in her office. And her husband is distraught because they're going to have this housewarming party. And he's like, "We're not Christians, though. We're Hindu." And she's like, "Oh, it doesn't matter. It's so fun." And then I think the climactic scene in that particular story felt to me like when they're digging through their yard and cleaning up. This is what I think is so interesting is Jhumpa Lahiri does what we all have done. We all know what it's like to move into a house and to clean and to clean up the yard. But she adds this really, I think, quite humorous element where they're doing yard work and they find a giant statue of the Virgin Mary, and the wife is thrilled. She has real and surely energy. Her her name is Twinkle. She's like, "I can't wait to put this in our yard." And her husband keeps like plotting, "How can I destroy this stuff?" And then, of course, all the friends and coworkers and acquaintances come over to the party, to the housewarming, and they're happy for the husband. They commend him for the work he's been doing. But they really fall in love with Twinkle and with her obsession with this Christian art. And it becomes like this fun party gimmick that they all kind of try to find more Christian art hidden in the walls of this home. I just I don't know why of the stories-- and maybe it's because so many of the stories really have an underlying tone of grief and heaviness. But this one felt really fun. And maybe that's my imagination, but I had a great time.
Hunter [00:24:09] No, I think that's the thing too. It's so funny because I do think that she deals with some heavier topics sometimes, but there is a sweetness and there is a joy to these people in different times throughout the stories.
Annie Jones [00:24:23] My other favorite-- and this will lead into another topic and I do think I will remember this one-- is called Mrs. Sen's. And it's about a young man whose mother needs to find him a sitter and his 11- years-old just needs a place to go after school. And Mrs. Sen is a professor's wife and she, like, has an advertisement in the paper or something. And so this young boy goes to stay with her every day after school. And Mrs. Sen has just immigrated from India and she cannot drive, and she loves fish. And I loved a lot about this story. There are a couple of stories, including The Third and Final Continent, but there are a couple of stories that deal with these inter-generational relationships and friendships. And I find that fascinating. I think it goes back to my childhood. I had really close relationships with my grandparents. I know you did too. And I also think if you grew up attending any kind of religious, whether it's church or temple or whatever, that is a multi-generational place. There aren't a ton of places now that are. But I think religious organizations still very much are. And so, anyway, they have this really interesting kind of inter-generational friendship. Although Mrs. Sen is much younger than I first pictured her. I think she's 30 years old or something. But what I absolutely loved about that story is the food writing, which I was not anticipating. There's some food writing in A Temporary Matter and maybe even some of the other stories. But Mrs. Sen spends her afternoons chopping and prepping in the kitchen and the young boy who eats pizza with his mom every night can't get over that. Mrs. Sen does this just for her and her husband, and how much time and effort she puts into cooking. And I've read some really wonderful novels by Nigerian authors and the way they write about food and dinner time and meals and meal prep and how much love and compassion goes into meal prep. I do wonder if Americans don't-- especially white Americans, we don't really grasp that as well. I don't think it's a cultural touchstone for us. We're like, "Oh, yeah, we're going to run to McDonald's or whatever." I do wonder if there's something where other cultures really know how to do this better. And the way that Jhumpa Lahiri writes about food in this story in particular was really striking to me.
Hunter [00:26:42] She writes a lot about food, actually, in her other-- especially, I think she might write about food more in her short story collection. Unaccustomed Earth I think is the one I'm thinking of. I just specifically said that because I specifically remember reading one of the first stories and was, like, there's a lot of stuff about food in here. I think that's very essential because it is such an absence I think for us culturally. It is much more apparent. And actually it's so funny you say that because Brian Washington wrote Memorial back in 2020, has a new book coming out, and he writes about food a lot too. Him and the woman who wrote The Wedding Date--
Annie Jones [00:27:28] Jasmine Guillory.
Hunter [00:27:29] Yes. They had an interview back in 2020 and they were both cooking, I think, while they were--
Annie Jones [00:27:35] Oh, fun.
Hunter [00:27:35] And they were talking about how food was such an important part of their lives. And so, of course, it would be an important part of their writing.
Annie Jones [00:27:43] Yes. Well, and I think black Americans have in a way different food experience than we do. And so, I love reading about it. And I particularly love I think it play such a big role in immigrant culture because it ties you back to where you're from. And I think that's one of the things I really loved about this story collection is Jhumpa Lahiri is an Indian-American writer. I think she was born in London, but she always calls herself an American writer. And all of these stories deal with Indian people, whether they are still living in India or whether they have immigrated. Many of the stories take place in New England, particularly Boston. There may be one story that takes place in London, I can't remember. But, anyway, I think there's a different kind of collection where this would have felt like just a lot of different stories of the immigrant experience. Do you follow a woman, she's a writer, her name is Marcie Walker, and her Instagram handle is @blackcoffeewithwhitefriends.
Hunter [00:28:55] Uh-huh.
Annie Jones [00:28:56] And she just did an Instagram post that I really appreciated. But I'm going to read part of the caption because I thought of it while I was reading this book. She's a she's a black author. And she said, "Let me tell you, and I've said it so many times, it's not enough to read all the history books and all the how to be a better ally books. You have to thirst for our stories as much as you do for your own. Our stories need to be on your best of lists as much as your own stories. The complex and beautiful diaspora of stories about our lives should go viral just as often as the trauma network of stories about our deaths." And when I was reading this, I thought, I think that's what I love, is all of these characters. Yes, they have to deal with what it's like. I mean, Mrs. Sen is such a memorable character to me because she is living in this tiny apartment, her husband is a teacher, a professor, and she clearly misses home. She waits for these letters from home and she misses her sister and she longs for her grandfather. But there are other stories where it's a married couple dealing with grief or intimacy or whatever. And so you get these beautiful stories about race and homeland and identity, but you also get these stories about love and grief. And the stories really run the gamut, which I found that really, really beautiful. And I think the food writing plays a part in that, particularly in Mrs. Sen's character. As for her, cooking is an act of returning home.
Hunter [00:30:29] Yeah. Talking about story organization, I enjoyed When Mr. Pirzada Came to Dine.
Annie Jones [00:30:38] Oh, yes.
Hunter [00:30:40] Yeah. It's the second story after A Temporary Matter. It's like a story in a collection that follows directly after A Temporary Matter. And I liked it. But I do wonder how strong A Temporary Matter is, if it maybe cast a little bit of a shadow.
Annie Jones [00:30:58] Now, I will say that story upon reading it doesn't make my list of favorites, but I do appreciate how Jhumpa Lahiri is subtly teaching us things. And this is just being very transparent. I don't know anything about Indian history or the history of Pakistan or the conflict between countries. We didn't learn that in school. And, in fact, she alludes to that. There's a character, I think, in that story who is a child of Indian immigrant parents, but she's like, "No, we really just learn about the American Revolution over and over again." Well, if that isn't the American educational experience. But, anyway, one thing I did appreciate about that story was I thought this is a subtly teaching me, a white reader,. About a history I didn't even know existed between Pakistan and India or between the Hindu culture and the Muslim cultures and things that I just didn't know about. So I appreciated that. But I also did not find that story quite as impactful as the first story.
Hunter [00:32:13] Yeah. It's funny because the first time I read the collection, it didn't stand out to me as much. I did give it more attention on the second read because I already knew that I love A Temporary Matter the first time. This is one of the reasons why I do love to reread books is because sometimes, especially if it's a short story collection and sometimes a story you overlooked. Sometimes things just click differently for you. It was so funny, though, because I was reading that story and it deals with loneliness in a lot of ways. But there's this thing about candy at the end that broke my heart and I was like, ah, I think you're going to need two stories in a row.
Annie Jones [00:32:52] It's really a loss of innocence, I think, in those closing pages. That was one thing I wanted to talk about. When you talk about loneliness, that feels like another theme. Because I tried to mark which stories were my favorite, but then ultimately I was like, well, I don't know if I'll remember that one as well. But The Treatment of Bibi Haldar was one where I thought, oh my gosh, she's 29 years old and she has these-- I did love this opening sentence: "For the greater number of her 29 years, Bibi Haldar suffered from an ailment that baffled family, friends, priests, pompous spinsters, gym therapists, prophets, and fools." Anyway, no one can figure out what ails her. And she lives in, I'm assuming, this kind of apartment building, and she lives with her aunt and uncle. And over time they lose interest in caring for her, and how the apartment building and the people who live there, which I believe is almost this Greek chorus of voices, I think if I'm not mistaken, it was like a collective "we" where they talk about her a little bit. I hope I'm not making that up. But in that story, your heart kind of goes out to Bibi who is not a perfect character. She's not some kind of saint or anything. She's just a human being who desperately wants to be married. I also found it, again, weirdly humorous because the suspicion of some of the doctors is that what will save Bibi, what will cure Bibi is for her to get married and to have sex. That's the implication, is that's what's going to help Bibi feel better. And then as so many good short stories do, that story kind of twists into something else at the very end. But what is at its heart, I think, is a story of loneliness. And who comes to your rescue in a time of loneliness? Who is your family? Which I think is another thing that that This Blessed House mentions, where the owner of that house looks around the room and he's like, "I've never seen so many people so dressed up except for our wedding. But what's different is at our wedding, all of those people had to be there. And these people are just my friends." And it was a really brief scene or brief sentence, but really striking. I thought this theme of who are your people?
Hunter [00:35:12] Yeah. What did you think about the story Sexy.
Annie Jones [00:35:16] Okay. Well, I did mark the line. I'll never forget where a child says the word. It made me deeply uncomfortable because it's like a child in a room with an adult who's telling her to put on this dress that she bought for her lover that she's having an affair with, and she puts it on for him, which never will I ever. That's a weird move, right? But, anyway, he puts it on for this, I assume, pre-teen character. And then he looks at her and says, you're sexy. And the only other time she's been called sexy is by her lover. But then I will never forget this line. I marked it because I was like, this is so good. So she asks him, "What do you think that means?" What does sexy mean. It kind of stops her in her tracks. He whispers to her, "It means loving someone you don't know." Oh, it was so good. Because his his father is having his own affair. And so this child has heard the word sexy to apply to his father and his father's affair. So it's loving someone you don't know. I don't know why that stuck with me so much, but I thought it was so good.
Hunter [00:36:22] No, I think that's the reason I ended up being like, oh, this story... Here's the thing. I feel like we talk about love--
Annie Jones [00:36:31] You love messy Miranda. I'm sure you love messy.
Hunter [00:36:34] You know what? It's so funny that to me felt like we had the sad girl novels that are out now, like Melissa Broder and Jen Begin and Tessa Maesteg and that new Emma Klein book and stuff. And I think that that is one of the early signs that we're getting of really the new and complicated women who are really just like "unlikable" at times because you're like, "Oh, why are you doing that? That's not appropriate." I love that. You're right. Anytime I ever ask myself, why are you doing that, I immediately am, like, I must love this character.
Annie Jones [00:37:11] Well, and what I'll also say about that story is, I think in the hands of a different writer, they would have taken it a more obvious direction. So the story opens with Miranda listening to her coworker in the cubicle next to her talking about some family member's husband who's having an affair. And Miranda the whole time knows she herself was having an affair. But I think in a different kind of collection or in the hands of a different writer, we would have gotten this surprise twist that Miranda was having an affair with the coworker's family member's husband or whatever. But it never went that direction and instead became an exploration of Miranda's guilt and her trying to figure out how long does she keep this affair going, and is this man the love of her life, or does she need to move beyond it? And I really appreciated that it could have gone one way and instead went in a pretty self-reflective way.
Hunter [00:38:16] What was the book where you understood-- we read a book. Was it last year maybe where someone had an affair and you said, "Okay, I guess I get it."
Annie Jones [00:38:26] Wait, I'm trying to think what it would have been. I don't know.
Hunter [00:38:30] I don't know. But all I have to say is I do feel like I have had some influence on you. I always make this joke and then I feel like I really do have to clarify that I am joking. But I do have obsessions with affairs. One of my life goals is to have an affair. I made a joke during Reading Retreat.
Annie Jones [00:38:48] During a live show.
Hunter [00:38:50] During a live show.
Annie Jones [00:38:51] And then I said something about it and people were appalled.
Hunter [00:38:56] Yeah. You laughed and you volleyed back and the crowd was silent.
Annie Jones [00:39:02] Yes, completely silent. I thought, oh, dear, people do not know that this is a running joke.
Hunter [00:39:08] They had been cackling for 20 minutes straight and it was dead air. And I thought, oh, my. And then I had to point to my loving husband and say, "He's here. He's in on the joke." No. But, anyway, it's just funny, though, because I do wonder if I have finally in some way corrupted you enough to let you be like, "Well, maybe for this one."
Annie Jones [00:39:32] Well, I think what I really appreciated about Miranda's character is you see-- help me, I assume I'm right about this. Miranda is white. It's what we gather from the story. Okay, so Miranda is the white character. She's dating Dev, who is an Indian character. And I can't decide. Is she in love with Dev or is she in love with Indian culture? She is completely mesmerized and obsessed with Indian culture because I think her coworker is Indian and now her lover is. And so I think she is such a messy, messy lady. She goes into like a video store and then there's a scene where she goes into an Indian restaurant alone because her lover only will meet her on Sundays. And so she spends the rest of the week like pining for him. And she goes out to an Indian restaurant. And it broke my heart because she's trying to teach herself Indian phrases like delicious at this Indian restaurant from the menu. And I just thought, oh, Miranda, you don't have to live this way.
Hunter [00:40:44] Could you imagine this being like an episode of Sex and the City?
Annie Jones [00:40:48] Yes. Every time I say Miranda, that's what I think.
Hunter [00:40:50] Yeah, I think it would be a good episode. I haven't even seen the new. Anyway, I won't get on that.
Annie Jones [00:40:59] Are there any other themes or stories or anything else kind of that stuck out about? I'm trying to see if there's any lines I particularly liked or anything.
Hunter [00:41:09] I really do think that we're talking about the idea of like of her ability to fit entire world into these little stories. I think that's the reason why her work-- because this is still a popular collection. This is still a collection people read and come back to. And I truly think it is because, like I said, short stories don't always work for people. But I do think that there is a sense of I don't want to say closure necessarily, but I do think there is a sense of you don't feel like you're holding your breath, waiting for something to happen and it doesn't happen. I feel like you do get that release with a story.
Annie Jones [00:41:50] Yeah, I would agree with that. One thing that we talk about in all of these episodes, because what we've been reading is Pulitzer winners. So this was the Pulitzer winner in 2000. It was published in 1999. How does this compare? Also, I saw this was only at that time like the seventh short story collection ever win or something. Wait, did Fortune Smiles win the Pulitzer or the National?
Hunter [00:42:17] The National Book Award.
Annie Jones [00:42:19] So I don't know if any have won since Interpreter of Maladies. I should have looked at that before we got on here. But how do you think this compares or why do you think this was the winner that year?
Hunter [00:42:29] I think more than just the idea of whether it be a short story collection or not, I think that what really stood out to people was that this was a very new vision of the American experience to what else is being seen in the landscape of literature at the time. And some of that is due to opportunity. That's not to say that there weren't people who were having new experiences or trying to write these experiences before this, but I think that Jhumpa Lahiri having this collection out--
Annie Jones [00:43:01] Which was her debut by the way.
Hunter [00:43:02] Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:43:05] Infuriating.
Hunter [00:43:06] I'm like, okay, that's cool.
Annie Jones [00:43:11] By the way if I put out a collection like this as my debut, I think would be like, okay, done.
Hunter [00:43:17] Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:43:19] Never have to publish again.
Hunter [00:43:20] That's why she's learning Italian.
Annie Jones [00:43:23] Yeah. She already won the Pulitzer right out of the gate.
Hunter [00:43:27] Her book The Lowland was a National Book Award finalist.
Annie Jones [00:43:33] She's incredibly consistent.
Hunter [00:43:35] Yeah. Her last book was Whereabouts. It's a book that it has one of those wherever type titles.
Annie Jones [00:43:44] Yes. Did you read The Namesake?
Hunter [00:43:48] Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:43:50] What is your favorite of hers?
Hunter [00:43:52] It's between this one and The Lowland. That one I feel like reminds me in some ways of another book that was the National Book Award finalist in 20 something about the dissociation of a bomb or something like that. I'll have to look it up later and tell you. But that was really good. It's about these two brothers and it takes very surprising turns, I think. And that's the thing, too, the way that she's able to-- she's taking you on these journeys with these stories that are so unexpected, but it never feels cheap or like she's just trying to do a little a 'gotcha' in the story. It's so organic.
Annie Jones [00:44:34] Yes. I think that's what I was trying to kind of allude to. There are a couple of stories in particular that take turns that I wasn't expecting, but it never felt gimmicky. I really did feel like I was in the hands of a master. And I went on Goodreads to-- I mark favorite quotes, but I sometimes will go to Goodreads so I can copy paste and not have to type them. Anyway, but I went to GoodReads and some of you on there l gave this three stars or something and ranked some of the stories two and a half stars and I thought I just don't know what collection you read. I just don't know.
Hunter [00:45:15] You know it's so interesting. So she was a really big fan of I think his name is Bernard Malamud. I cannot remember how to pronounce his last name, but he was a National Book Award winner in the late fifties. He was a finalist multiple times. Brilliant Jewish-American writer. He was really big around the same time as Saul Bellow and Philip Roth. And he's not really read as much now, but he had a short story collection that won called The Magic Barrel. And it's so interesting because I think she even wrote the foreword for that for the reissue. But it's funny because sometimes people have criticized her for having certain more European influences, which is very similar to the criticisms that were given to Ralph Ellison, who wrote Invisible Man in '52/53. And I always think that's so interesting when this idea that like Brandon Taylor, even right now we're seeing we're seeing criticisms of authors of color who have-- we've always seen it-- where there's people who either say that they're like-- it's funny when you see the criticisms. Because other people praising him being like, oh, it transcends race. Which is its own problem, but then you also see people who are like, it's not taking enough influences from whatever. But I truly just think that she was somebody who deeply loved literature and the literature that she was reading [inaudible] people like Bernard Malamud. And I think that you can see that influence, especially in her short stories. And I think it's really exciting. I think she's even more adventurous in her novels in some ways. And that's the thing. I don't think she's always quite as successful in what she's doing in her novels, but it's only because she's taking really big risks narratively. And I'd rather you'd take a big swing and-- you know what I mean?
Annie Jones [00:47:06] Yeah. I would too. Try something.. I definitely think I'm going to read romance stories now. The release coming out here in October, but I may revisit or I guess visit for the first time. I may go back and read some of her backlist novels and things like that, because I really just love her writing. I was so blown away by it. And we didn't even talk about the title story. But but even the title story, which again I'm not sure five years down the road that's the one that will stick out to me. But it's amazing how tender her characters are and how very much I cared for them. I'm always blown away when it's so few pages and yet you still deeply care for the people that these authors are writing about.
Hunter [00:47:54] It's so funny now that I'm thinking about it. So there was the other two books that were finalists that year were Close Range by Annie Proulx. She won the Pulitzer for The Shipping News back in '93. I love her writing, but Close Range actually has the short story, Brokeback Mountain.
Annie Jones [00:48:18] Oh, interesting.
Hunter [00:48:19] And that's actually one of my all time favorite collections too. So it's funny that these two are featured here. But, yeah, it's one of the best short story collection. So this was tough competition. But also the book Waiting by Ha Jin won the National Book Award in 1999. So it's so funny that these three major works, you know...
Annie Jones [00:48:42] All in the same year. She had stiff competition.
Hunter [00:48:44] Yeah. Could you imagine. I just think that's really cool to think about because there's some years where it's like worth.
Annie Jones [00:48:52] Yeah, I did read this I guess because we're reading this here in August, but I also am like, "Why isn't this required reading?" This feels like great senior year of high school. I don't know. Maybe it is required reading elsewhere. But sometimes when I read books in the summer, I'm like, "Why isn't anyone in school reading this?"
Hunter [00:49:10] But that's the thing. I completely think that we should be reading classics because it's exciting to be able to see like the journey from there to here. But I actually think all the time about how Toni Morrison was heavily influenced in a lot of ways by William Faulkner. And I think that if you compared something like Beloved with Something by William Faulkner and talked about that relationship, that to me would be more investing and interesting. Or you look at something like To Kill a Mockingbird and pairing that book with something like [inaudible] and discussing the relation, like not only how we come or not politically, but also story wise.
Annie Jones [00:50:01] Well, and that's what I always loved about my great books courses and that's what I love about bookselling, is it's books in conversation with each other. And I think students getting to experience that at the high school level would then be so much better equipped not only for college because whatever, go to college or don't go to college. But they'd be so much better equipped, I think, for real life relationships and in conversations, because they've already experienced books in conversation with each other. I think it'd just be so great for students to get to read some of these. And this is short. This is a short collection.
Hunter [00:50:36] Yeah, that's the thing,. I think we talk about like kids aren't ready for this or that. And I'm like, "Oh, no. If they're reading The Great Gatsby..."
Annie Jones [00:50:48] Yeah. They're ready
Hunter [00:50:49] Yeah. I'm, like, a girl gets hit by a car in The Great Gatsby, so I think they're all right.
Annie Jones [00:50:55] I think they can handle this.
Hunter [00:50:56] Yeah.
Annie Jones [00:50:57] Well, thank you. This was a delight as always. I am so glad I read this. And because it's such a backlist title, I'm not sure I would have read it were it not for you. And every time I told somebody I was reading this-- My copy did not come in to The Bookshelf in time. My fault, not The Bookshelf stuff fault. And so, I called Midtown Reader in Tallahassee. They also did not have it, and they were super apologetic and they were like, "Oh my gosh, you're going to love it." And then I ordered it. I had to go to Barnes and Noble in Tallahassee and get it. But, anyway, this is a book that's still on bookshelves and it is still people's favorites. I think I told Olivia I was reading it and she was thrilled for me. I think if you have never read this, I would encourage you to do so. You'll be so glad that you did.
[00:51:42] This week I'm reading Lazy City by Rachel Connelly. Hunter, what are you reading?
Hunter [00:51:48] I'm reading This Other Eden by Paul Harding.
Annie Jones: From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website: bookshelfthomasville.com A full transcript of today’s episode can be found at:
Special thanks to Studio D Podcast Production for production of From the Front Porch and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.
Our Executive Producers of today’s episode are…
Cammy Tidwell, Chantalle Carl, Kate O'Connell, Kristin May, Linda Lee Drozt, Martha, Stacy Laue, Chanta Combs, Stephanie Dean, Ashley Ferrell
Executive Producers (Read Their Own Names): Nicole Marsee, Wendi Jenkins, Laurie Johnson, Susan Hulings
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